View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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  • Yes

    18 17.14%
  • No

    78 74.29%
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    9 8.57%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #711
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if all claims were only righteous based on what a corrupted US Court system would do this board would be boring and this country doomed. For example, Taney's decision with Dred Scott would have precluded Frederick Douglas from arguing that slavery was wrong and blacks would have never been able to claim separate but "equal" was unjust.

    Or given most courts-gays shouldn't discuss getting married.

    the fact is, one can make an honest argument that when more than half of your income is taken by taxes (it is for anyone in the top bracket) you are a slave to the government to some extent. true, you aren't being beaten, scourged or imprisoned so its technically not the same that Africans were subjected to 200 years ago
    Well... you can go to prison and lose all of your property for not paying taxes... the government just has to have it. This applies to any tax the government levies.

  2. #712
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if all claims were only righteous based on what a corrupted US Court system would do this board would be boring and this country doomed. For example, Taney's decision with Dred Scott would have precluded Frederick Douglas from arguing that slavery was wrong and blacks would have never been able to claim separate but "equal" was unjust.

    Or given most courts-gays shouldn't discuss getting married.

    the fact is, one can make an honest argument that when more than half of your income is taken by taxes (it is for anyone in the top bracket) you are a slave to the government to some extent. true, you aren't being beaten, scourged or imprisoned so its technically not the same that Africans were subjected to 200 years ago
    See, I agree with most of what you say above, but if you look at it from a societal standpoint, most SCOTUS decisions, especially those that change from one era to another, are based on interpretations consistent with the state of society at the time. The 13th and 14th Amendment have been narrowly construed duing the 19th century, and less narrowly constued during the 20th. Yet, both times, the Constitution has been followed.

    The issue I have is with the use of the word "slavery". No, you can't make an honest argument using that word. It's hyperbole and an appeal to emotion. It is being used, incorrectly, to evoke a reaction. It's like using Hitler in ANY argument.

    I actually agree with your position on a flat tax rate... though I'd like to see some figures on whether that would work in sustaining government expenditures. The issue I have is when folks use incorrect terminology to evoke an emotional reaction. All that is, is hyperbole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #713
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    See, I agree with most of what you say above, but if you look at it from a societal standpoint, most SCOTUS decisions, especially those that change from one era to another, are based on interpretations consistent with the state of society at the time. The 13th and 14th Amendment have been narrowly construed duing the 19th century, and less narrowly constued during the 20th. Yet, both times, the Constitution has been followed.

    The issue I have is with the use of the word "slavery". No, you can't make an honest argument using that word. It's hyperbole and an appeal to emotion. It is being used, incorrectly, to evoke a reaction. It's like using Hitler in ANY argument.

    I actually agree with your position on a flat tax rate... though I'd like to see some figures on whether that would work in sustaining government expenditures. The issue I have is when folks use incorrect terminology to evoke an emotional reaction. All that is, is hyperbole.
    without getting into a semantic battle over "slavery" (he was her "love slave", he is enslaved by tobacco, "I work like a slave") the issue isn't whether the government can continue to spend at the wasteful rates now. The clear answer is that the government cannot continue to spend at its current rate no matter what the tax system. Even the most avid class warriors admit that if you jack taxes up too high, the revenues decrease as people leave. Sweden found that out. So, there is no tax system available that will sustain the current spending.



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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    See, I agree with most of what you say above, but if you look at it from a societal standpoint, most SCOTUS decisions, especially those that change from one era to another, are based on interpretations consistent with the state of society at the time. The 13th and 14th Amendment have been narrowly construed duing the 19th century, and less narrowly constued during the 20th. Yet, both times, the Constitution has been followed.

    The issue I have is with the use of the word "slavery". No, you can't make an honest argument using that word. It's hyperbole and an appeal to emotion. It is being used, incorrectly, to evoke a reaction. It's like using Hitler in ANY argument.

    I actually agree with your position on a flat tax rate... though I'd like to see some figures on whether that would work in sustaining government expenditures. The issue I have is when folks use incorrect terminology to evoke an emotional reaction. All that is, is hyperbole.
    Except that slavery is defined as actually ownership of a person or economics ie wage slave. I used the term slavery correctly. Here is the definition of slavery and slave.

    slavery: state of subjection like that of a slave

    slave: One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: "I was still the slave of education and prejudice" (Edward Gibbon).

  5. #715
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    without getting into a semantic battle over "slavery" (he was her "love slave", he is enslaved by tobacco, "I work like a slave") the issue isn't whether the government can continue to spend at the wasteful rates now. The clear answer is that the government cannot continue to spend at its current rate no matter what the tax system. Even the most avid class warriors admit that if you jack taxes up too high, the revenues decrease as people leave. Sweden found that out. So, there is no tax system available that will sustain the current spending.
    Again... I would agree with this. There is so much inefficiency in government. We need another Hoover Commission.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #716
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Except that slavery is defined as actually ownership of a person or economics ie wage slave. I used the term slavery correctly. Here is the definition of slavery and slave.

    slavery: state of subjection like that of a slave

    slave: One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: "I was still the slave of education and prejudice" (Edward Gibbon).
    So... when are you going to work on that 13th Amendment case?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #717
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    So... when are you going to work on that 13th Amendment case?
    So when you are you going to actually discuss and not use hyperbole?

  8. #718
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    First, you're misattributing what I actually by saying that all taxation is slavery. I never said that, so if you don't mind provide proof of where I actually said that all taxation is slavery. Secondly, the part I did say was slavery was not hyperbole, but an opinion based upon the fact that we have the right to the gains of our own industry. It's actually protected under Missouri Constitution under Section II and it applies to me since I live in Missouri. Based off this legal fact, yes, 90% taxation is slavery since the government enjoys the gains of my own industry while I do not.
    The 16th Amendment says you're wrong. But feel free to work that 13th Amendment case.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #719
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    So when you are you going to actually discuss and not use hyperbole?
    When you do the same. And I am discussing this. Read my responses to Turtle.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #720
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The 16th Amendment says you're wrong. But feel free to work that 13th Amendment case.
    Actually, the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the 16th Amendment granted Congress no new power to levy taxes and defined the four categories of legal taxes under the 16th Amendment as capital gains, corporate earnings, dividends, and illicit transactions. I guess you can't discuss but have to use hyperbole.

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