View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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  • Yes

    18 17.14%
  • No

    78 74.29%
  • Other (Explain)

    9 8.57%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    And if I am too poor, I have no one to defend my property from thieves or fire, and I can't drive on roads. I don't think I like this system.
    You're in for a shock then because the courts have ruled that it is your responsibility to defend your property from thieves and fire. The government is under no obligation to defend those things. I'll cite South v. Maryland (1853) where the Supreme Court ruled that the police do not have to protect you or your property because it is your responsibility.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    You're in for a shock then because the courts have ruled that it is your responsibility to defend your property from thieves and fire. The government is under no obligation to defend those things. I'll cite South v. Maryland (1853) where the Supreme Court ruled that the police do not have to protect you or your property because it is your responsibility.
    That's not what the ruling said. It stated that the police cannot be held liable for NOT defending your property. Very different than what you are communicating.
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    so, under this..meritocracy ...does your average property magnate get one vote per property they own? are they allowed to disenfranchise 100's of people, simply by buying their houses, then renting them back out? does that mean, even if i receive no government handouts, i can't vote, simply 'cause i'm renting, and banks that own people houses, do they get a vote too?
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Labor should not be taxed. Money manipulation and money made from not doing labor should.

  5. #65
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    In my original post I stated the tax rate would be at about 90% and you did not dispute it. In fact, you came down on the side of saying that it was not slavery for that amount of income to be paid as taxes.
    That is a lie.

    Here is what I responded to…

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    This is based off what someone said in another thread. Since the 14th Amendment prohibits slavery of any kind does income, consumption based, and sale taxes a form of slavery that economically ties a person to the government and by default the poor?
    That is what I responded to. You then added YOUR opinion on it…

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I would have to say yes since the Congressional Budget Office has stated many times that the route the country is going that many people working in 2020 and beyond will have to pay roughly 90% of their income in taxes to keep up the rate of services the government provides. This, to me, is economic slavery to the government and a violation of the 14th Amendment.
    I responded with this to the original question you asked…

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No. The government needs an income to support military, public works and roads etc. I have no problem paying my fair share of taxes. It is when I see them throwing good money after bad on failed programs I have a problem. Otherwise no, it's not in any way slavery.
    So you obviously have an issue of some kind as I said nothing even close to the bull**** you just spouted.

    Notice where the question mark is.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I did state it in my first post with the citation of 90% in taxes on income. You stated that it wasn't slavery for that level.
    I stated taxation in and of itself is not slavery. Your initial question minus your opinion based off someone else’s statement had nothing to do with my statement at all. Do I need to state it a few more times just to make certain you understand? Or are you going to say I said something completely different again?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Yes, because we all know that tax evasion is a criminal offense in the same category as murder.
    Are you ever going to reply to what I said? Or are you just going to keep making up **** I said because you have no clue?



    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Wow, you sounded just like Gus there. In the United States all laws must be just to be valid. Any law that is unjust is invalid from the moment of its passage. That's what the Supreme Court handed down in Marbury v. Madison in 1803 and is a part of case law that has yet to be overturned. So yes, we may be a country of laws, but are those laws just? The rest of your statement is a red herring since I'm talking about 90%+ taxation.
    No, you were talking about taxes. Someone else mentioned this to you. Do I need to post your initial statement yet again????

    I don’t believe the number, I think it is ridicules. So why would I debate it? It is flawed and has no basis in reality. Do I need to repeat that a few more times as well???

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Most of the time it was in times of economic hardship. Are you saying that it's okay for the government to take all of your money when the times are tough for it?
    Lets see…

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Most of those were during time of war or great wealth in the country. If you look at times of economic hardship they drop greatly.

    After Vietnam you see a steady drop and very little climb.
    Yep that is exactly what I said. [/sarcasm]

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Yes, because people got tired of paying almost all of their money to the government.
    Actually it was because Vietnam ended. Funny the draft ended around the same time. No need for more taxes when we were not at war.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Again, you are comparing apples to oranges since we all know that depriving the government of the fruits of your labor is the same as possessing drugs or driving while drunk.
    I guess that one flew completely over your head. No problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Actually, it hasn't been replaced as there are many places with private security and it works just fine.
    Actually they were replaced by city police according to your article. Do I need to point that out as well? Security is not the same as police. I think seeing the behavior of Blackwater in Iraq should be enough to show anyone what a bad idea it is to privatize police and all other municipal functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Yes, because we all know that it was the exact same government under the same Constitution and all that.
    Again, I never said that…

    I said…

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Wrong...

    The Continental Congress printed paper money which was so depreciated that it ceased to pass as currency, spawning the expression "not worth a continental". Congress could not levy taxes and could only make requisitions upon the States. Less than a million and a half dollars came into the treasury between 1781 and 1784, although the governors had been asked for two million in 1783 alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Can we pull in English and French Parliments plus all of the other European governments since they're all part of our fledgling government?
    No they were not after 1776. Fallacy argument by you at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Saying I'm wrong and proving it are two different things. I have proven you wrong that they are two completely different governments operating under two different legal systems.
    It was still our government, so yes I have proved it and you are still wrong.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 07-12-10 at 05:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    That's not what the ruling said. It stated that the police cannot be held liable for NOT defending your property. Very different than what you are communicating.
    If it's not the government's job then whose job is it? Sheriff South was the government agent and Pottle suffered violence at the hands of the mob after Sheriff South refused to intervene to protect Pottle. This leaves only Pottle in this case to defend himself. The court was quite clear that Pottle should have defended himself instead of relying upon Sheriff South. This set the precendent that the police are under no obligation to protect you or your property since it is your responsibility. I can add in more current cases if you'd like that further reinforces my statements.

  7. #67
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    so, under this..meritocracy ...does your average property magnate get one vote per property they own? are they allowed to disenfranchise 100's of people, simply by buying their houses, then renting them back out? does that mean, even if i receive no government handouts, i can't vote, simply 'cause i'm renting, and banks that own people houses, do they get a vote too?
    Under the historical republican system, you only got one vote regardless of how much property you own. Only if those 100s of people sell to the owner and decide to rent them out. Your entire statement is nothing more than hyperbole.

    @Blackdog: I cited the percentage from the CBO on what it would take to keep the current level of services that the government provides. You go off on all sorts of tangents and spouting nonsense that has nothing to do with the percentage that is required by everyone to pay in taxes to keep going. Deal with the percentage as reported by the CBO and not any other percentage. You were proven wrong about the loss of jobs and civil unrest claims regarding the 90% income tax rate of top wage earners.

    I think the behavior of the police and its brutality only reinforces my position that private security can do a better job. For example, Waco anyone?

    No, the Continental Congress ceased to exist in 1776 and is a fallacy argument on your part. It is not still our government. In fact, the Continental Congress wasn't even a government. It was a body of delegates that were appointed by the states to see to it that the state governments communicated on matters pertaining to the war. Congress of the Confederation was a government since it was ratified by the states partaking in it.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 07-12-10 at 05:34 AM.

  8. #68
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Under the historical republican system, you only got one vote regardless of how much property you own. Only if those 100s of people sell to the owner and decide to rent them out. Your entire statement is nothing more than hyperbole.

    @Blackdog: I cited the percentage from the CBO on what it would take to keep the current level of services that the government provides. You go off on all sorts of tangents and spouting nonsense that has nothing to do with the percentage that is required by everyone to pay in taxes to keep going. Deal with the percentage as reported by the CBO and not any other percentage. You were proven wrong about the loss of jobs and civil unrest claims regarding the 90% income tax rate of top wage earners.

    I think the behavior of the police and its brutality only reinforces my position that private security can do a better job. For example, Waco anyone?

    No, the Continental Congress ceased to exist in 1776 and is a fallacy argument on your part. It is not still our government. In fact, the Continental Congress wasn't even a government. It was a body of delegates that were appointed by the states to see to it that the state governments communicated on matters pertaining to the war. Congress of the Confederation was a government since it was ratified by the states partaking in it.
    You can blow hard all you like it does not change the facts as I have presented them.

    You are still wrong and the poll pretty much bares this out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    People bitch about having to pay car insurance and you are telling me you honestly believe people would pay for fire departments and road service??? Please, that is just to unrealistic.
    If people don't voluntary purchase it then they won't receive the service.

    Lets not even get into the liability of your neighbors house burning because he did not pay and it ignites something else. That is just one example, their are far to many to list.
    Yes they would have liability if he caused the fire then he would be responsible for any damages incurred on the property of others which could be settled through tort procedure in private arbitration.

  10. #70
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You can blow hard all you like it does not change the facts as I have presented them.

    You are still wrong and the poll pretty much bares this out.
    Appeal to emotion logical fallacy. You haven't presented any facts. You did present your rhetoric and opinion though. Saying I'm wrong and proving it are two different things.

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