View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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  • Yes

    18 17.14%
  • No

    78 74.29%
  • Other (Explain)

    9 8.57%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #611
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I did not take issue with the idea that private charities can do a better job than government, I took issue with the idea that charity can keep up with needs of the financially handicapped. You were not making a comparison between charities and government, charity alone was enough. Those are two completely different arguments.



    As I stated, I don't care about your assertion that government hates competition, so there is no need to prove it to me. Also, all that shows is that a certain sum was donated to charity, not that charities can keep up with the needs of the financially handicapped. Per post #445 http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1058858476



    Having more disposable income, and even donating that to charity does not automatically mean that charities have kept up with the needs of the financilly handicapped. You can not infer it as that would mean you are making an assumption without proof.

    I agree that Americans are generous when it comes to charity, this is not in dispute.
    Then prove that charities are unable to keep up with the poor since that it was you are supposed to do.

  2. #612
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Then prove that charities are unable to keep up with the poor since that it was you are supposed to do.
    I have already cited this, but I will do it again.

    MISSION STATEMENT
    Poorhouse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Outdoor Relief provided through an Overseer of the Poor: When people fell upon hard times and members of their family, friends or members of their church congregations could not provide enough assistance to tide them over, they made application to an elected local official called the Overseer of the Poor. Within a budget of tax money, he might provide them with food, fuel, clothing, or even permission to get medical treatment to be paid out of tax funds.
    Government was picking up where charities left off in the 1800s.

    Now, are you going to prove your assertion or keep going on red herrings?

  3. #613
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I have already cited this, but I will do it again.

    MISSION STATEMENT
    Poorhouse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Government was picking up where charities left off in the 1800s.

    Now, are you going to prove your assertion or keep going on red herrings?
    Invalid since you're bringing up a state government charity into a discussion about the federal government charity.

  4. #614
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Invalid since you're bringing up a state government charity into a discussion about the federal government charity.
    Nope. If charity was enough to keep up with the needs of the financially handicapped, than no government charity would be needed.

    I guess we are moving on to new topics in this conversation since you are not ignoring my request. Too bad, I really had wished that you could back up your statement, but I will accept it as you admitting that you have no proof since you have yet to answer the challenge.

  5. #615
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The fact is that charities are never as reliable as the US government. My argument was never that charities don't do good, or they can't take care of people. My argument is that charities can't of all of the impoverished, like the US government can. Until charities get taxes from every citizen, every year they will never be as reliable as the US government. If they were, charities would of gotten people out of the great depression, not the government. But that didn't happen, the government did.
    why does Obama and many dems want to engage in activity that will lessen charitable contributions by making it more expensive to engage in charity?



  6. #616
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    They made the argument that charities weren't effective or reliable and I disagreed. I demanded no proof at that time since it was a simple discussion with the person.
    No, LiberalAvenger made that assertion.

    When you disagreed, something in your argument caused megaprogman to, in turn, disagree with you.

    Or at least, that's how I understand the situation.

    Thus, I don't see how you can suggest that megaprogman must prove his disagreement, as you yourself have previously stated something along the lines of "the one who asserts must prove".

    From megaprogman's perspective, you asserted something in your disagreement with LiberalAvenger that he (megaprogman) disagreed with.

    That LiberalAvenger made an assertion has no bearing on megaprogman, as he was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with that statement.

    His only disagreement was with YOUR statement.

    Thus, the burden of proof lies with you.

    But perhaps I missed something.


    -----------
    Edit: I just realized that I'm arguing about an argument about an argument....

    Last edited by The Mark; 07-15-10 at 10:29 PM.
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    No, LiberalAvenger made that assertion.

    When you disagreed, something in your argument caused megaprogman to, in turn, disagree with you.

    Or at least, that's how I understand the situation.

    Thus, I don't see how you can suggest that megaprogman must prove his disagreement, as you yourself have previously stated something along the lines of "the one who asserts must prove".

    From megaprogman's perspective, you asserted something in your disagreement with LiberalAvenger that he (megaprogman) disagreed with.

    That LiberalAvenger made an assertion has no bearing on megaprogman, as he was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with that statement.

    His only disagreement was with YOUR statement.

    Thus, the burden of proof lies with you.

    But perhaps I missed something.


    -----------
    Edit: I just realized that I'm arguing about an argument about an argument....

    You didn't he is just painted into a corner and I am waiting for him to either prove his assertion or admit his argument has no proof.

  8. #618
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Nope. If charity was enough to keep up with the needs of the financially handicapped, than no government charity would be needed.

    I guess we are moving on to new topics in this conversation since you are not ignoring my request. Too bad, I really had wished that you could back up your statement, but I will accept it as you admitting that you have no proof since you have yet to answer the challenge.
    Prove that government charity was needed from the federal government since you assert it. I stated that charities worked just fine before the government got involved and showed the disposable income of a person from the 18th and 19th centuries as well as their tax liability to produce their disposable income.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Prove that government charity was needed from the federal government since you assert it. I stated that charities worked just fine before the government got involved and showed the disposable income of a person from the 18th and 19th centuries as well as their tax liability to produce their disposable income.
    Which info only speaks to the potential amount of money charities could have had.

    It says nothing about the effectiveness of their charitable efforts, which is THE key piece of information to determine if their effectiveness was better or worse than the fed govs.

    Personally, I would rather, if anything, that the fed gov worked through charities, instead of separately...
    Education.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Prove that government charity was needed from the federal government since you assert it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Proof The_Patriot Desires
    Outdoor Relief provided through an Overseer of the Poor: When people fell upon hard times and members of their family, friends or members of their church congregations could not provide enough assistance to tide them over, they made application to an elected local official called the Overseer of the Poor. Within a budget of tax money, he might provide them with food, fuel, clothing, or even permission to get medical treatment to be paid out of tax funds
    Its on this very page

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I stated that charities worked just fine before the government got involved and showed the disposable income of a person from the 18th and 19th centuries as well as their tax liability to produce their disposable income.
    Yes, but as I stated, disposable income and tax liability do not show the effect of charity on the "financially handicapped" per post 445. Is this the best you have because its not proof, its just a record of giving. Can you even establish what the necessary amount of giving for charity to be enough for the financially handicapped is? If not, then this "proof" of yours cannot prove anything as there would be nothing to measure against.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 07-15-10 at 10:49 PM.

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