View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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    18 17.14%
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    78 74.29%
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    9 8.57%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #551
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    The only taxes placed on 18th century Americans after the Constitution was ratified was distilled spirits, tobacco and snuff, refined sugar, carriages, property sold at auction and certain legal documents. In the 19th century there was the addition of property taxes upon homes starting in certain cities in the 1830's and became standard in all states by the end of the century. Using the data table you provided in the document the wages in gold dollars will have to be converted into gold ounces then using the Coinage Act of 1790 to find the equivalent amount. The current spot price for gold is $1,206.40 for an ounce. Thus on the table the $2500 disposible income is converted into 2 ounces of gold. That translates into $20 gold dollars. At the upper end of the scale, it is 33 ounces of gold which is $600 gold dollars.









    In the 18th-19th centuries wages ranged from $1 and up per day depending upon the job of the person. I'll use a miller that made $2 a day for this with a weekly wage of $14 gold dollars. He didn't have to pay any of the taxes we have to pay now, so his average expenses would have been roughly $2-4 a week in gold dollars (assuming he's single), so he was left with $10 gold dollars. That is a half an ounce of gold, so in today's money that would be $603.20 per week or
    $31,366.4 a year. His total disposable income would be at 72%.
    i'm sorry, the info i provided was disposable income in 2000 dollars . no conversion necessary. and you still provided nothing to back up your disposable income claim.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  2. #552
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    He that asserts must prove. I did provide proof, but the onus is on you to buy the book to read it. There's an old saying, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. Like I said before it's up to you to buy the book since you expressed interest in the subject. Also, scanning in a book is a violation of copyright and I cannot believe you're asking me to break the law. Is this standard for your 'honest discussions'?
    I'm just reading this and had to comment. This is the most riduclous assertion I've seen at DP. It's YOUR assertion, therefore it is YOUR responsibility to prove it. It is NOT someone else's responsibility to confirm your position. It is YOURS. Either buy the book and confirm, or your source is irrelevant. The onus to prove YOUR position is on YOU. If you cannot do your own research, don't blame others.
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  3. #553
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i'm sorry, the info i provided was disposable income in 2000 dollars . no conversion necessary. and you still provided nothing to back up your disposable income claim.
    Actually, you have to convert the fiat currency over to the gold currency. They are two completely different currencies. Also, I did provide proof of wages and taxes paid back then which shows the disposible income of the person. You just don't like that people had more money back then or the proof provided.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 07-15-10 at 03:17 PM.

  4. #554
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Actually, you have to convert the fiat currency over to the gold currency. They are two completely different currencies. Also, I did provide proof of wages and taxes paid back then which shows the disposible income of the person. You just don't that people had more money back then or the proof provided.
    why do you have to convert anything if the link compares apples to apples? the link i provided compares periods using the year 2000 dollars. my link lays out, very cleary, trending of disposable income from 1900 to 2000.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    why do you have to convert anything if the link compares apples to apples? the link i provided compares periods using the year 2000 dollars. my link lays out, very cleary, trending of disposable income from 1900 to 2000.
    Because in 2000 we are using fiat money not backed by anything. Under the Coinage Act of 1790, an ounce of gold is set at $20 an ounce and it remained there until the Federal Reserve Note entered circulation in 1916. The current spot price for gold is $1,206.40 an ounce, which we have to go by for the year 2000 dollars. Between 1789-1916, people were paid in gold, silver, nickel, and copper coins. There were Treasury Certificates issued that functioned as a metal coin since they were payable upon demand in gold or silver, which was .999 pure. The Treasury Certificates made it easier to carry large sums of money since the coins got rather heavy.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 07-15-10 at 03:28 PM.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Is taxation Slavery? Absolutely not. If the government did not exercise taxation as a viable avenue to generate revenues, then our Government would be more appropriately labeled as follows:

    U.S.Government, LLC...

  7. #557
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Because in 2000 we are using fiat money not backed by anything. Under the Coinage Act of 1790, an ounce of gold is set at $20 an ounce and it remained there until the Federal Reserve Note entered circulation in 1916. The current spot price for gold is $1,206.40, an ounce which we have to go by for the year 2000 dollars. Between 1789-1916, people were paid in gold, silver, nickel, and copper coins. There were Treasury Certificates issued that functioned as a metal coin since they were payable upon demand in gold or silver, which was .999 pure.
    what don't you undersdtand about the table being in yr 2000 equivalent dollars?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    what don't you undersdtand about the table being in yr 2000 equivalent dollars?
    Because the data I presented for the period of time, 1789-1919, that you asked about isn't covered in the document you provided. The data you presented about disposable income is from the 20th-21st centuries while I was speaking about the 18th and 19th centuries. Thus, the conversion was necessary to make a valid comparison of disposable income between the 18th-19th centuries and the 20th-21st centuries.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 07-15-10 at 03:34 PM.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Show me the proof that backs up your first statement regarding charity for the years 1700-1919. I have been waiting patiently for it.

    The government can limit you to get welfare based upon skin color (actually happened to me back when I was poor and needed help) or any other criteria they want to put into place. It is not guaranteed.
    Keep waiting. I have an appointment with my psychiatrist.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I'm all for making those programs more efficient, but I'm definitely not for getting rid of those programs. Also charities can not provide for everyone like the government can.
    A) The government can not provide for everyone.

    B) Even if they could it is not their right, the government's purpose (if there is one) is to defend the right of individual sovereignty not to violate it, because when you say the government can violate your rights like this, this and this, but not like that, that, and that, the line to be drawn is arbitrary and will continuously shift through the cycles of minimal tyranny and absolute tyranny due to the fickle whims of the masses at the moment, the only way to solve this problem is to say simply that the state has no place violating the rights of individual sovereignty no matter if they say it is for the public good or not.

    Also your self ownership comes after taxes.
    lol you either have the right to individual sovereignty or you do not, there is no grey area, you are either the master of your own body with exclusive rights to use of said body and all capital, services, and goods generated by the labour of that body or you are property left to the capricious devices of the state come what may.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-15-10 at 04:39 PM.

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