View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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  • Yes

    18 17.14%
  • No

    78 74.29%
  • Other (Explain)

    9 8.57%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #371
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I suggest that those who are living off the wealth of others should not have the power to vote away more and more of the wealth of those who support you.

    I prefer a system where everyone pays the same rate. The most productive tax payers would still pay far more than you but at least if their rates were voted up so would the rates of all of the voters so it would be a disincentive to keep spending and spending and spending

    a sales tax would do the same thing

    what is awful is a situation where people like you keep voting to jack up the top rates of those of us who pay most of the taxes because it is unfair to us and you have no incentive to stop government growth when you suffer no downside and you are promised more and more goodies paid for by others
    So then you think poor people shouldn't have the right to vote. Gotcha!

    Then you can vote for people who agree with you. But 10% of $15,000 hurts more than 10% of $500,000.

    We already have a sales tax.

    When rich people are going hungry because of taxes you can talk, but when people want to cut spending on welfare programs that could very well make me go hungry I think I should have equal say.
    And I don't plan to be in this situation forever, I hate having to be on food stamps, but when I am fortunate enough to get out of this situation, I will gladly pay taxes to help other people who have fell on hard times.

  2. #372
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So... is it valid?
    Just as valid as it is when Republicans use it when liberals make the comment. You make the call, Goobie. Is it never valid, or is it always valid.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #373
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The point was that this was settled after the war, and by the winning side. It was not settled before the war, and was not settled until such a time that one side was unable to do anyting except exist at the mercy of the other.
    No, all the decision did was affirm the constitutionality of secession not being legal.

    And, as an aside, reading the decision, there is a distinct lack of constitutional citation, the strongest of which is the "perpituity" clause or the articles and the "more perfect union" clause of the preamble. As has been discussed elsewhere, neither item carries any force of law. Given that, while obviously legally binding, is much like any number of other decisions that amount to a "well, because we said so".
    Understanding what the founders intent was in writing the Constitution is an important part of SCOTUS making decisions. This intent was what was used. I see no problem with that.


    Yes.... and as we know, they carry no legal force.
    I note a particular lack of citation of said papers in the decision, BTW.
    See above.


    Well, OK...
    The states are entitled to these representitives according to the Constitition. No condition may be laid upon this entitlement, expecially not the demand that a state ratify a proposed amendment.
    These states were in a state of rebellion at the time, refusing to abide by the Constitution. They also voluntarily chose to remove their representation. Since the state of rebellion threatened the security of the US itself, I'n certain that a case could be made that this was valid under national defense laws.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #374
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am still waiting for someone to deal with my points that a system that allows non tax payers to constantly vote up the taxes of taxpayers is going to collapse
    Easy. I've read the entire thread. And I'll say the same thing I said before. Your position is nothing but hyperbole. You are waiting for a refutation for a position that is not based in reality, and one that is claiming "the sky is falling" kind of extremism. You are usually more rational than that.

    and secondly, proof that those who pay the most taxes actually receive the most government spending or benefits proportionate to their taxes
    I think it depends, though for the most part, you are probably correct. I'n not sure what the point is, though.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #375
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you believe in mob rule, I do not
    You believe in plutocracy, I do not.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #376
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I reject the From each according to his ability nonsense,
    You can reject it all you want, means little as it is our system for the time being.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    my wife has a black belt and a USPSA Class A card-feel free to try, I hope she cleans up the mess before I get back home
    You act like it would be rape?
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  7. #377
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    American wages for the average working persons have stagnated for years and the economic gap between the rich and middle class is growing wider with lower wages due to the exploitation of the rich elite who offer less wages.

    This is a marvelous article about it.

    It's All About the Wages -- Our Economy Would Be Fine If Everyone Made Their Fair Share | | AlterNet

  8. #378
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Any tax that is spent on anything that violates individual rights or is otherwise unconstitutional is definitely SLAVERY.

  9. #379
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    A.) If you are born in this country, you are a citizen. Therefore you are a member. But you can leave when you are 18 if you feel the tax system is unfair.
    Once again I did not agree to grant this group of people sovereignty over me, being born is not a voluntary action, and furthermore, this once again pre-supposes that the state has legitimate claim over the territory which I am born into, you are committing the begging the question fallacy because your conclusion is assumed in your premise.

    B.) The government of the USA has control over the lands of the USA. If you live within those lands the government has control over then you are subjected to pay taxes. Just like if you live in a specific state you have to pay the state's taxes. People from Georgia don't pay Texas taxes, but they are obligated to pay Georgian taxes.
    The state has no legitimate claim to the territory which it claims. Original appropriation can only be obtained legitmately through mixing your labour with the land or by acquiring title to the land from someone who has, and so on and so forth. The state is just another group of people living within an arbitrary land mass with no more right to infringe upon my right to self ownership than any other group of people.

    C.) This is a flawed argument, because it assumes that the state has control over the people. It doesn't, the state can't tell me what job to do, when I can go to bed, when I have to work, if I have to work, how long I have to stay here, stop me from leaving.
    Either the state has the right to violate your right to individual sovereignty or it does not. You are either property or you are not. You sit here and say the state can violate your right of self ownership on this, this, and this, but the state can not violate it on that, that, and that, your argument is not consistent, I on the other hand argue flat out that the state can not violate your right of self ownership period. Your argument is flawed not mine.

    The state can't do any of that, well unless I broke a law, and I wouldn't think you are advocating the abolishment of laws now are you?
    I most certainly am advocating the abolishment of quite a few laws which infringe upon the individuals right of self ownership. The law should exist only to protect the right of self ownership not to violate it.

    So what if I went driving drunk, what makes the government think it has the right to take away my freedom by putting me in jail!!!
    This is different because upon obtaining a license to drive you enter into a voluntary contract to abide by a set of rules and the penalties for violating those rules when you operate a motor vehicle.

    Taxes are a necessity of life, you need to deal with that.
    No they are not a necessity of life and they are a violation of individual sovereignty.

    Or you could boycott taxes,
    Then I would be arrested, imprisoned, and physically assualted/killed if I resist.

    and everything the government does with them. Just remember to not use any road, unless you make it yourself.
    Roads could just as easily be produced by private entitities who would then charge a fee for use of those roads. This would not violate the non-aggression principle because the cost of those roads would be obtained through voluntary consent of the user.

    Oh and just turn in that drivers license you have, because it's was made using tax dollars.
    The last time I checked drivers licenses are issued upon paying $40.

    Oh, and quite your job, because your being "forced" to give up some of your paycheck to the government, and there's no way to get around that besides quitting your job.
    I am advocating the abolishment of the state, because it is an illegitimate entity whose authority comes about through the illegitimate use of force. How is this a response to that?

    And just take your kids out of public school, no need for them to benefit because of evil taxes. I could go on, but I think you get my point.
    The public administration of the education system is destroying the future of this countries youth while wasting billions in stolen capital.

  10. #380
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I prefer a system where everyone pays the same rate.
    The fact is that the super wealth pay no income tax at all. They earn their riches though investments and pay only 15% on capital gains. Warren Buffett has famously said that his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does. He also say there is a class war going on and his side (the rich) are winning.

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