View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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  • Yes

    18 17.14%
  • No

    78 74.29%
  • Other (Explain)

    9 8.57%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #361
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    lets look at which party has an interest in keeping people poor and dependent on government handouts rather than "rising up" and becoming free of the addiction of welfare/

    after you do that, you might decide which party's preferred tax system really holds the poor down

    it was once said that Religion is the opiate of the masses-the fear of God and hellfire kept the rabble from rebelling against the government. well socialism and handouts is the new religion
    Neither party wants people to be on welfare. And how does welfare hold people down? The Dems don't won't people on welfare, it doesn't make sense. Just because one gets off welfare doesn't mean that they are going to vote republican if they didn't already. I know I sure as hell won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    btw remind me why you shouldn't pay the same tax rate as me.
    Because my family's income right now is $0. Were living with family right now, otherwise we'd be homeless. And thank the good Lord for food stamps, otherwise we'd go hungry. If we had to pay the same taxes as you we'd would be in debt to the government. Because we couldn't pay them. I had to quite school because my family couldn't afford the tuition anymore, and my only hope of going back is to work for about a year and save up money. But of course it's a bitch to find a job right now, so my life is on hold until I can find a job. So before you say we're mooching off the gov. think again. Were not living the good life. We're surviving, and we couldn't do that without the governments help.

  2. #362
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    btw remind me why you shouldn't pay the same tax rate as me.
    Using the graduated scale as we do in the US, works better than say a pole tax. Only because of the aforementioned system has every working individual who makes from minimum wage up to fortune 500 CEO income pays a reasonable shear of the burden. This according to his means.

    If you tried a poll tax etc, poor and middle class people would be the ones hurt most. What do you do to them if they can't pay? Extra work to pay back the state? Wouldn't you call that slavery as well?

    You have to learn to work within or change the system we have legally or it's a dead issue.

    Just like I feel now because of the sleeping pills.

    So if you can't make any sense of it, just let me know and I will try to be around in the moooooorning to do your wife after you leave for work. Or at least gargle with mouthwash!

    OK good Night.
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  3. #363
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    If you are a citizen of this country, you have an obligation to pay taxes. It's like being a member of a club that requires membership dues. Taxes are our membership dues, if you want to be apart of this "club" you have to pay them, or face the repercussions. And you always have the right to leave the club. It is nothing like slavery.
    A) I never volunteered to be a member of this club. Any contractual agreement not entered into voluntarily is null and void.

    B) Once again this is a begging the question logical fallacy because you are pre-supposing that the state has legitimate claim to control over this territory in which I own property:

    "I think that the person who makes this argument is already assuming that the government has some legitimate jurisdiction over this territory. And then they say, well, now, anyone who is in the territory is therefore agreeing to the prevailing rules. But they’re assuming the very thing they're trying to prove – namely that this jurisdiction over the territory is legitimate. If it's not, then the government is just one more group of people living in this broad general geographical territory. But I've got my property, and exactly what their arrangements are I don't know, but here I am in my property and they don't own it – at least they haven't given me any argument that they do – and so, the fact that I am living in "this country" means I am living in a certain geographical region that they have certain pretensions over – but the question is whether those pretensions are legitimate. You can’t assume it as a means to proving it." -- Roderick Long Libertarian Anarchism: Responses to Ten Objection
    C) Self ownership means that one has exclusive rights to their own body and any goods, services, or capital produced by that body, if you are stating that the government has the right to infringe upon the right of self ownership then you are tacitly admitting that the state rather than the individual is the owner of the individual's body, the state is therefor the owner and I the property. How is that not slavery?

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The constitution allows taxes so I really don't know what you're getting at.
    The social contract was not entered into voluntarily by the individual, it holds the same validity as a contract entered into by my father to sell me into bondage.

  5. #365
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Using the graduated scale as we do in the US, works better than say a pole tax. Only because of the aforementioned system has every working individual who makes from minimum wage up to fortune 500 CEO income pays a reasonable shear of the burden. This according to his means.

    If you tried a poll tax etc, poor and middle class people would be the ones hurt most. What do you do to them if they can't pay? Extra work to pay back the state? Wouldn't you call that slavery as well?

    You have to learn to work within or change the system we have legally or it's a dead issue.

    Just like I feel now because of the sleeping pills.

    So if you can't make any sense of it, just let me know and I will try to be around in the moooooorning to do your wife after you leave for work. Or at least gargle with mouthwash!

    OK good Night.
    I reject the From each according to his ability nonsense,

    my wife has a black belt and a USPSA Class A card-feel free to try, I hope she cleans up the mess before I get back home



  6. #366
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Neither party wants people to be on welfare. And how does welfare hold people down? The Dems don't won't people on welfare, it doesn't make sense. Just because one gets off welfare doesn't mean that they are going to vote republican if they didn't already. I know I sure as hell won't.



    Because my family's income right now is $0. Were living with family right now, otherwise we'd be homeless. And thank the good Lord for food stamps, otherwise we'd go hungry. If we had to pay the same taxes as you we'd would be in debt to the government. Because we couldn't pay them. I had to quite school because my family couldn't afford the tuition anymore, and my only hope of going back is to work for about a year and save up money. But of course it's a bitch to find a job right now, so my life is on hold until I can find a job. So before you say we're mooching off the gov. think again. Were not living the good life. We're surviving, and we couldn't do that without the governments help.
    and you think that means you should have equal say with how taxes are collected as do those who pay for you to exist?

    but I do hope your situation improves.



  7. #367
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    A) I never volunteered to be a member of this club. Any contractual agreement not entered into voluntarily is null and void.

    B) Once again this is a begging the question logical fallacy because you are pre-supposing that the state has legitimate claim to control over this territory in which I own property:



    C) Self ownership means that one has exclusive rights to their own body and any goods, services, or capital produced by that body, if you are stating that the government has the right to infringe upon the right of self ownership then you are tacitly admitting that the state rather than the individual is the owner of the individual's body, the state is therefor the owner and I the property. How is that not slavery?
    A.) If you are born in this country, you are a citizen. Therefore you are a member. But you can leave when you are 18 if you feel the tax system is unfair.

    B.) The government of the USA has control over the lands of the USA. If you live within those lands the government has control over then you are subjected to pay taxes. Just like if you live in a specific state you have to pay the state's taxes. People from Georgia don't pay Texas taxes, but they are obligated to pay Georgian taxes.

    C.) This is a flawed argument, because it assumes that the state has control over the people. It doesn't, the state can't tell me what job to do, when I can go to bed, when I have to work, if I have to work, how long I have to stay here, stop me from leaving. The state can't do any of that, well unless I broke a law, and I wouldn't think you are advocating the abolishment of laws now are you? So what if I went driving drunk, what makes the government think it has the right to take away my freedom by putting me in jail!!!
    Taxes are a necessity of life, you need to deal with that. Or you could boycott taxes, and everything the government does with them. Just remember to not use any road, unless you make it yourself. Oh and just turn in that drivers license you have, because it's was made using tax dollars. Oh, and quite your job, because your being "forced" to give up some of your paycheck to the government, and there's no way to get around that besides quitting your job. And just take your kids out of public school, no need for them to benefit because of evil taxes. I could go on, but I think you get my point.

  8. #368
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    A.) If you are born in this country, you are a citizen. Therefore you are a member. But you can leave when you are 18 if you feel the tax system is unfair.

    B.) The government of the USA has control over the lands of the USA. If you live within those lands the government has control over then you are subjected to pay taxes. Just like if you live in a specific state you have to pay the state's taxes. People from Georgia don't pay Texas taxes, but they are obligated to pay Georgian taxes.

    C.) This is a flawed argument, because it assumes that the state has control over the people. It doesn't, the state can't tell me what job to do, when I can go to bed, when I have to work, if I have to work, how long I have to stay here, stop me from leaving. The state can't do any of that, well unless I broke a law, and I wouldn't think you are advocating the abolishment of laws now are you? So what if I went driving drunk, what makes the government think it has the right to take away my freedom by putting me in jail!!!
    Taxes are a necessity of life, you need to deal with that. Or you could boycott taxes, and everything the government does with them. Just remember to not use any road, unless you make it yourself. Oh and just turn in that drivers license you have, because it's was made using tax dollars. Oh, and quite your job, because your being "forced" to give up some of your paycheck to the government, and there's no way to get around that besides quitting your job. And just take your kids out of public school, no need for them to benefit because of evil taxes. I could go on, but I think you get my point.
    I am still waiting for someone to deal with my points that a system that allows non tax payers to constantly vote up the taxes of taxpayers is going to collapse

    and secondly, proof that those who pay the most taxes actually receive the most government spending or benefits proportionate to their taxes



  9. #369
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and you think that means you should have equal say with how taxes are collected as do those who pay for you to exist?

    but I do hope your situation improves.
    Well thats not a tax issue, thats a voting issue. Are you suggesting that because I don't earn anything I don't have a right to vote?

    And thanks.

  10. #370
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Well thats not a tax issue, thats a voting issue. Are you suggesting that because I don't earn anything I don't have a right to vote?

    And thanks.
    I suggest that those who are living off the wealth of others should not have the power to vote away more and more of the wealth of those who support you.

    I prefer a system where everyone pays the same rate. The most productive tax payers would still pay far more than you but at least if their rates were voted up so would the rates of all of the voters so it would be a disincentive to keep spending and spending and spending

    a sales tax would do the same thing

    what is awful is a situation where people like you keep voting to jack up the top rates of those of us who pay most of the taxes because it is unfair to us and you have no incentive to stop government growth when you suffer no downside and you are promised more and more goodies paid for by others



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