View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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  • Yes

    18 17.14%
  • No

    78 74.29%
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    9 8.57%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    If we use that logic, then my state has the right to force your state to stay. The tenth amendment is vague and doesn't address anything specifically concerning our conversation. You can make an inference there, but I've never read anything suggesting that the tenth was intended for this purpose
    Actually, you're state has no say in what happens in my state. The power of secession has always been held by the state and is part of the ratification of the Constitution by New York and Virginia.

  2. #132
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I give you prominent abolitionist Lysander Spooner on the subject of treason in his book No Treason.
    I believe I already had a discussion similar to this with someone else.

    In the end, consent is case of begging the question. Government can never be made legitimate soley based on whether consent is given or not.

    Government is instead justified based on necessity and fairness.

  3. #133
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Genocide has always been a founding principle and the historical evidence bears this out. American Indians were slaughtered for their land and was done so under the flag of the United States government. I give you the Trail of Tears for example. Can you point to where the south had committed genocide under the banner of the Confederate States of America flag? You can't since it never happened. Relations between the southern states and American Indians was very good. I would present you the Declaration of Causes issued by the Cherokee Nation as proof. My point was that your argument that the Confederate flag was all about slavery is incorrect since Old Glory had slavery and other human rights violations committed under it and for far longer.
    You are completely missing the point. When the USA broke free from the crown, if you read our document explaining why, we gave a list of reasons, many related to taxation. If you read the documents as to why those states broke free from the CSA, it was almost entirely over slavery. THAT is the difference.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  4. #134
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Actually, you're state has no say in what happens in my state. The power of secession has always been held by the state and is part of the ratification of the Constitution by New York and Virginia.
    Why not? Why doesn't the Tenth give me that power?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  5. #135
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    being able to read and write doesn't imply a high level of education. they typical soldier, not just confederate soldier, wasn't highly educated. first, their relative youth, second, they were typically farmers.
    The south was very educated. By extension most of the north was also relatively farmers. Only in New England states did you find manufacturing on a massive scale. Other northern states did have manufacturing as did southern states, but nowhere near the level that New England had. It's nice to know that you think so little of southerners that they're uneducated slobs. People were uneducated on both sides since education was considered a privilege of the wealthy.

  6. #136
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    I think it was 60 minutes but I just saw a show about Afghanistan where they showed a muddy dirty stree with mansions built on it. The mansions are owned by Afghan politicians who pay no taxes on them. There are piles of garbage next to some of them and the street is hardly passable.

    The Afghan politicians rent them out to foreigners such as diplomats and the like.

    The reason that the streets are like they are is that nobody pays any taxes. I guess you get what you pay for. Go for it anti-taxers.
    We are paying our taxes, but we are not getting what we pay for. Instead, it is being redistributed to those who pay very little or no taxes.

  7. #137
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    The supreme court will never hear a valid case concerning the 9th and tenth amendments. They will rule that the cases are unjustifiable.

  8. #138
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    You are completely missing the point. When the USA broke free from the crown, if you read our document explaining why, we gave a list of reasons, many related to taxation. If you read the documents as to why those states broke free from the CSA, it was almost entirely over slavery. THAT is the difference.
    Actually, no, the Declaration of Independence makes mention of taxes only once. The vast majority of the reasons given for separation was over the pleniary power the King used over the states to their detriment without regard to Parliment or the state legislatures. Funny, that Lincoln and presidents since have ignored Congress on numerous occassions. Slavery was also part of the Declaration of Independence since it was a part of colonial life both in the north and in the south. I also said that you are taking the declarations of secession out of their historical context which is a logical fallacy. If you want to use them then you have to include the Morrell Tariff and Lincolns support of slavery in order to keep the taxes rolling in. You also have to use that due to the vast amount of capital invested into slaves that the Morrell Tariff would have crippled the southern economy due to the taxes that the south would have to pay to the federal government. The key is context.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 07-12-10 at 03:23 PM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Why not? Why doesn't the Tenth give me that power?
    Nope, it's called jurisdiction. Your state lacks legal jurisdiction to force another state to comply with your laws.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Actually, no, the Declaration of Independence makes mention of taxes only once. The vast majority of the reasons given for separation was over the pleniary power the King used over the states to their detriment without regard to Parliment or the state legislatures. Funny, that Lincoln and presidents since have ignored Congress on numerous occassions. Slavery was also part of the Declaration of Independence since it was a part of colonial life both in the north and in the south.
    Except it WASN'T PART OF THE DOCUMENT. It may have been part of life, but none of the reasons given had anything to do with slavery. Now tell me, what state issues did the south secede over?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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