View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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    18 17.14%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I would disagree. I actually study the civil war quite deeply (I'm studying for a history degree, and I am a civil war reenactor), and I think that there's been something of a whitewash job (pardon the pun) on that. Yes, it was about state rights, but that state right they were rebelling over specifically was slavery. If you read SC's document of secession, the only issue they mention is slavery. If you look at the run up, it's almost all about slavery. Only a few states mention anything other than slavery in their documents of secession, and I doubt any state would secede over canal tariffs. To say it wasn't about slavery is to ignore most of the factors that led to the war.
    You're taking what was written out of the context of the time it was written. At the time these secessions were written the southern states was facing the Morrell Tariff, which would have brought back the tariff of abominations. The secessions highlight the reasons why the southern states issued them by stating the amount of capital placed into slave owning that could not be changed overnight and that the Morrell Tariff would have crippled their economies. Lincoln made it clear he had no intention of interferring with slavery in 1860-1861. He made is clear that it was all about taxes and he was willing to help author the Corwin Amendment that would have made slavery off limits by the federal government plus give tacit support of said amendment in his first inaugural address.

  2. #122
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    If a state is doing something wrong (wrong defined as something that it does not have the right to do), then it should be stopped. That is what the war was about. I agree, it doesn't matter what the 'wrong' thing was. But it was about what a state can and cannot do. In this case they were wrong and thankfully lost that war (despite some of their claims they lost! - they are now under the US constitution, no?)

    The underlying issue is what made it worth the cost of war to the North. But the states had the right to succeed from the union so they could define their rights independently. They were wrong to try to protect slavery. The North was wrong to force them to remain part of the union. Their flag represents the ideal that the state should have the power to choose.
    I'm not sure if I agree wit that. There is nothing in the constitution to suggest that a state can unilaterally leave. I think that if that was such a big important part of the document, something would have been put in the constitution. It's "We the People" not "We the States"
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  3. #123
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    You're the only one since Old Glory had slavery, genocide, and other crimes against humanity done by people under its banner. Is Old Glory a symbol of those things?
    Old Glory is a symbol of those things to various people, sure. But the difference is that genocide wasn't a founding principle of the USA while it was THE reason the CSA broke away
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  4. #124
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Then you'd be surprised that the literacy rates in the south was right about 81-90%. Here's an interesting paper on the subject.
    Interesting. No notes provided but available upon request. Let me guess. Send cash, check, or money order to blah, blah, blah.

  5. #125
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I'm not sure if I agree wit that. There is nothing in the constitution to suggest that a state can unilaterally leave. I think that if that was such a big important part of the document, something would have been put in the constitution. It's "We the People" not "We the States"
    Actually, the Constitution does state in the Tenth Amendment, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Since the states are not prohibited from leaving in Article I Section X of the Constitution of the United States they retain the power they held. The people had nothing to do with the Constitution since it was ratified by the states by delegates appointed by the state legislatures.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The Confederate flag is seen as a symbol of racism by some and as a symbol of rebelion by others. Either way unlike Germany, who hides it's history and acts as if it never happend, we should (and do for the most part) aknowledge our histry and embrace it good or bad. It is in the end who we are and where we come from.

    The Confederate flag in the end is just the flag of a failed union of states.
    That's why it makes me angry and sad when you have people like the Governor of Mississippi and Virginia completely downplaying or ignoring the slavery aspect of the CSA
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  7. #127
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Interesting. No notes provided but available upon request. Let me guess. Send cash, check, or money order to blah, blah, blah.
    I linked the html version, but here's the pdf one, but yeah I agree that the notes would have been nice. I don't think it's a money thing since the person had a 20 page limit to meet.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 07-12-10 at 03:02 PM.

  8. #128
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Actually, the Constitution does state in the Tenth Amendment, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Since the states are not prohibited from leaving in Article I Section X of the Constitution of the United States they retain the power they held. The people had nothing to do with the Constitution since it was ratified by the states by delegates appointed by the state legislatures.
    If we use that logic, then my state has the right to force your state to stay. The tenth amendment is vague and doesn't address anything specifically concerning our conversation. You can make an inference there, but I've never read anything suggesting that the tenth was intended for this purpose
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  9. #129
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Then you'd be surprised that the literacy rates in the south was right about 81-90%. Here's an interesting paper on the subject.
    being able to read and write doesn't imply a high level of education. they typical soldier, not just confederate soldier, wasn't highly educated. first, their relative youth, second, they were typically farmers.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  10. #130
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Old Glory is a symbol of those things to various people, sure. But the difference is that genocide wasn't a founding principle of the USA while it was THE reason the CSA broke away
    Genocide has always been a founding principle and the historical evidence bears this out. American Indians were slaughtered for their land and was done so under the flag of the United States government. I give you the Trail of Tears for example. Can you point to where the south had committed genocide under the banner of the Confederate States of America flag? You can't since it never happened. Relations between the southern states and American Indians was very good. I would present you the Declaration of Causes issued by the Cherokee Nation as proof. My point was that your argument that the Confederate flag was all about slavery is incorrect since Old Glory had slavery and other human rights violations committed under it and for far longer.

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