View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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    18 17.14%
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    78 74.29%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Am I the only one who finds it funny that the guy with a confederate flag on his avatar is whining about "slavery"?
    Why? The confederate flag is not a symbol of slavery to the educated.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    Why? The confederate flag is not a symbol of slavery to the educated.
    I am curious about what you mean by educated then. I am pretty sure I can easily find a professor of African-American studies with a Ph.D. and some very strong negative opinions about that symbol.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    Why? The confederate flag is not a symbol of slavery to the educated.
    you're right, the conferderated states had nothing to do with slavery
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I am curious about what you mean by educated then. I am pretty sure I can find a professor of African-American studies with a Ph.D. and some very strong opinions about that symbol.
    I 100% disagree with the confederacy in believing that slavery was up to each individual state. Each man is created equal and has equal protection under the constitution at the national level. No man can be the property of another man.

    But the confederacy believed it was the states' rights. The war was about states' rights. The confederacy was created to promote states' rights against the federal government and that's what the flag represents historically, to the educated man. They were wrong in this particular instance, yes. But overall, their philosophy was not to fight for slavery. It was to fight for their property (that they had grossly mislabeled).

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I 100% disagree with the confederacy in believing that slavery was up to each individual state. Each man is created equal and has equal protection under the constitution at the national level. No man can be the property of another man.
    I pretty much agree with this sentiment. Ownership of a person by another is an abomination in my eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    But the confederacy believed it was the states' rights. The war was about states' rights.
    Somewhat. Nobody would care about the issue of states rights if it was coke vs pepsi. The actual underlying issue had a whole lot to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    The confederacy was created to promote states' rights against the federal government and that's what the flag represents historically, to the educated man.
    I am still curious by what you mean by this statement. Are you speaking of formal schooling or some other form of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    They were wrong in this particular instance, yes. But overall, their philosophy was not to fight for slavery. It was to fight for their property (that they had grossly mislabeled).
    I don't think there is a good distinction to be made here. If a state is doing something wrong, than it is wrong, period, no argument about states rights is going to convince me to ignore it.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I 100% disagree with the confederacy in believing that slavery was up to each individual state. Each man is created equal and has equal protection under the constitution at the national level. No man can be the property of another man.

    But the confederacy believed it was the states' rights. The war was about states' rights. The confederacy was created to promote states' rights against the federal government and that's what the flag represents historically, to the educated man. They were wrong in this particular instance, yes. But overall, their philosophy was not to fight for slavery. It was to fight for their property (that they had grossly mislabeled).
    Hmmm, "mislabeled property rights"

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    What a ridiculous comparison! No, taxation is not the same as slavery, no matter how many far fetched comparisons you come up with.

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't think there is a good distinction to be made here. If a state is doing something wrong, than it is wrong, period, no argument about states rights is going to convince me to ignore it.
    If a state is doing something wrong (wrong defined as something that it does not have the right to do), then it should be stopped. That is what the war was about. I agree, it doesn't matter what the 'wrong' thing was. But it was about what a state can and cannot do. In this case they were wrong and thankfully lost that war (despite some of their claims they lost! - they are now under the US constitution, no?)

    The underlying issue is what made it worth the cost of war to the North. But the states had the right to succeed from the union so they could define their rights independently. They were wrong to try to protect slavery. The North was wrong to force them to remain part of the union. Their flag represents the ideal that the state should have the power to choose.

    And to answer your question to the best of my obviously limited ability: An educated man is one who understands what their views were, even if they disagree. The South's war was not one of slavery. The North's war was one of slavery. The confederate flag represents the South's views. Not the North's views. Ergo - it represents what they fought for. I believe in what the South fought for idealistically, though they were wrong specifically. I believe in what the North fought for idealistically, though they technically didn't have the right. One of the few times in history that the nat'l gov't going beyond their constitutional powers was justified, IMO.

  9. #99
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Notice that I said stop making an income

    No income no income taxes

    And you can live without earning money,


    Buy about 500 acres and farmstead. You wont have electricity, a computer or a car but you will live
    He has to have money to pay his real estate taxes to the city or county in which he lives so he has to have a job, or at least raise crops to sell so he can earn enough money to pay the taxes on those 500 acres. Even though he will be on land use or agricultural abatement, which rolls back his taxes to a lower rate, he will still have to pay taxes.

    Even if a man makes no income, he will be expected to file the forms, just the same. Don't you think it would set off IRS alarms, if a man made $100,000 in 2009, but then filed in 2010 and put down, nothing earned? Now, who's the slave master? Sounds like the IRS.
    Last edited by bicycleman; 07-12-10 at 12:08 PM.

  10. #100
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    Why? The confederate flag is not a symbol of slavery to the educated.
    I hold the exact opposite to be true.

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