View Poll Results: Which tax system is most 'fair'?

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  • Progressive Tax

    90 42.25%
  • Regressive Tax

    0 0%
  • Flat Percentage Tax Rate

    104 48.83%
  • Flat Dollar Tax

    5 2.35%
  • Other

    14 6.57%
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Thread: Which tax system is most 'fair'

  1. #41
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    I don't view property rights as absolute, but rather I view limited property rights as a mechanism to create incentives for a nation's people to become productive. In other words, property rights exist not to protect the rights of the individual, but rather to serve society. The mistake many people make is to view them as serving the individual, and then start to mistakenly believe that they are somehow absolute. No rights are absolute. They all only exist as long as they serve the purpose of increasing the good in a free society.

    Since I don't view taxation as theft, I am free to recommend that tax system which best serves a nation. I don't really care about fairness, since there are so many ways to look at such a notion. The only thing that really matters is that tax system which maximizes both prosperity and spread of the nation's wealth. Sometimes these are in conflict and it is up to society to determine the correct balance. However, just the maximization of prosperity itself is best served by a progressive tax system.

    Any time society attempts a system of property rights and combines it with any tax system that gives rise to a pronounced concentration of a nation's wealth in the hands of a relatively few, this leads to economic malaise, corruption and poverty for the vast majority of the population. I like my society set up with a set of fairly strong and extensive property rights to foster a free market system, combined with wise regulation of those markets, and finally combined with a progressive tax system to offset the tendency of wealth to accumulate at the top.

    This kind of system is a whole package, and it is "Fair" because it works. If a flat tax was what "worked", I would be for that (in emerging economies, there is evidence that a flat tax is best). Whatever works.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  2. #42
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I don't view property rights as absolute, but rather I view limited property rights as a mechanism to create incentives for a nation's people to become productive. In other words, property rights exist not to protect the rights of the individual, but rather to serve society. The mistake many people make is to view them as serving the individual, and then start to mistakenly believe that they are somehow absolute. No rights are absolute. They all only exist as long as they serve the purpose of increasing the good in a free society.

    Since I don't view taxation as theft, I am free to recommend that tax system which best serves a nation. I don't really care about fairness, since there are so many ways to look at such a notion. The only thing that really matters is that tax system which maximizes both prosperity and spread of the nation's wealth. Sometimes these are in conflict and it is up to society to determine the correct balance. However, just the maximization of prosperity itself is best served by a progressive tax system.

    Any time society attempts a system of property rights and combines it with any tax system that gives rise to a pronounced concentration of a nation's wealth in the hands of a relatively few, this leads to economic malaise, corruption and poverty for the vast majority of the population. I like my society set up with a set of fairly strong and extensive property rights to foster a free market system, combined with wise regulation of those markets, and finally combined with a progressive tax system to offset the tendency of wealth to accumulate at the top.

    This kind of system is a whole package, and it is "Fair" because it works. If a flat tax was what "worked", I would be for that (in emerging economies, there is evidence that a flat tax is best). Whatever works.
    We've had a progressive tax system for near on 100 years.
    In the minds of many, prosperity hasn't been spread and the wealth has continued to accumulate at the top.

    Is that a failing at the implementation of the progressive tax?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #43
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    The flat dollar is the most fair, but since that will never happen, a consumption tax is my next choice. Everyone needs to be paying into the kitty, because when people don't have a personal stake in what's happening, it gets out of control and class warfare keeps growing.
    We could implement a minimum income tax rather than using a consumption tax in order to get everyone to pay into the system.

  4. #44
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We've had a progressive tax system for near on 100 years.
    In the minds of many, prosperity hasn't been spread and the wealth has continued to accumulate at the top.

    Is that a failing at the implementation of the progressive tax?
    No, it just means that the lack of prosperity would be worse and the accumulation of wealth at the top would be greater if we didn't have a progressive tax system.

    Don't get me wrong - I, by no means, am claiming that the current tax system is perfect because it is progressive. Rather, I'm for a reformed progressive tax system. I think many people who favor progressive taxes are.
    Last edited by samsmart; 07-10-10 at 11:53 PM.

  5. #45
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We've had a progressive tax system for near on 100 years.
    In the minds of many, prosperity hasn't been spread and the wealth has continued to accumulate at the top.

    Is that a failing at the implementation of the progressive tax?
    Ray Powell, late Professor of Economics at Yale, one of the most respected and well liked Professors at the school and hardly a conservative noted that if all wealth was gathered up and equally divided among the citizens of the USA (this was in 1977) by 2050 the income disparities would be about the same as they were in 1977

    one has to merely look at dozens of mega lottery winners, game show champions or former boxing title holders who are bankrupt or destitute within a mere few years after their fortune was made.

    Winners win while losers lose

    look at tennis and golf. THe top 5-6 competitiors win more titles than the rest of the entire profession combined. That is what is called top heavy accumulation of wealth yet no one thinks we ought to whack Rafa Nadal in the knee or hamstring Serena Williams

    those who want to give a government the power to make things fair give a government the power to rape everyone.



  6. #46
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    No, it just means that the lack of prosperity would be worse and the accumulation of wealth at the top would be greater.

    Don't get me wrong - I, by no means, am claiming that the current tax system is perfect because it is progressive. Rather, I'm for a reformed progressive tax system. I think many people who favor progressive taxes are.
    have you ever considered the fact that a tax system that allows people to survive somewhat comfortably without paying taxes or providing any real benefit to society causes a lack of effort on their part and keeps them mired in what some call poverty?



  7. #47
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    No, it just means that the lack of prosperity would be worse and the accumulation of wealth at the top would be greater if we didn't have a progressive tax system.

    Don't get me wrong - I, by no means, am claiming that the current tax system is perfect because it is progressive. Rather, I'm for a reformed progressive tax system. I think many people who favor progressive taxes are.
    I'm not saying that is my view on things but I think it begs the question because many people state that, the middle class is getting hit hard and the poor are getting poorer.

    If that is true, why hasn't the progressive tax system ended that?
    I think the answer lies in changing the behavior of those that are middle class and poor.
    Twisting and turning numbers only does so much.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #48
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    We could implement a minimum income tax rather than using a consumption tax in order to get everyone to pay into the system.
    We need people to be conscious of their consumption and where tax money is going. Consumption taxes would do just that. If you want to live a life of frivolity and excess, then do so. What we currently have is 50% of the working population not caring how tax dollars are being spent, because they have no personal stake in it.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  9. #49
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    I think it is so funny how people think a transaction tax is somehow voluntary.

    So, what if, instead of taxing income they taxed transactions only. All transactions. Including those that go on between and employer and employees. Like the transaction that occurs when an employee gets paid for work services rendered.

    Would that make ya'll feel better about the income tax? If it was a tax levied on employers for the voluntary transaction they engage in when they pay employees?
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  10. #50
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    We need people to be conscious of their consumption and where tax money is going. Consumption taxes would do just that. If you want to live a life of frivolity and excess, then do so. What we currently have is 50% of the working population not caring how tax dollars are being spent, because they have no personal stake in it.
    a consumption tax was proposed when the income tax was being debated many many decades ago. The senator from Indiana (I recall) noted a consumption tax would be more efficient etc. Another senator noted that a consumption tax would not give the government near the power an income tax does

    a consumption tax has dozens of benefits for us who dont like an intrusive government

    1) for taxpayers it means far less wasted time-no figuring your taxes-no hiring CPAs or attorneys etc

    2) for those who have illegal income-dope dealers especially, you will be taxed as much as LeBron James or Harrison Ford

    3) the elimination of most of the IRS-that alone would save billions

    4) Congress loses much of its improper power-the power to pander to net tax consumers using the money of net tax payers

    5) no more voting by those who have no skin in the game

    6) class warfare as an excuse or a political ploy would be severely limited



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