View Poll Results: Which tax system is most 'fair'?

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  • Progressive Tax

    90 42.25%
  • Regressive Tax

    0 0%
  • Flat Percentage Tax Rate

    104 48.83%
  • Flat Dollar Tax

    5 2.35%
  • Other

    14 6.57%
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Thread: Which tax system is most 'fair'

  1. #291
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If it matters, with my limited knowledge of the subject, and using my poor week brain , I had a thought...

    It seems to me that a less "progressive" income/earnings tax would encourage people to make more, as the more they make, the more they keep.

    Now, as I understand the current system, this is already the case...

    But a balance between rates that are too high and rates that are too low seems the optimum here.

    Personally, I think that rates should not rise much at all up to and including an income (single or combined) of $300,000-400,000/year.

    After that, sharper rate increases with earnings increases would, IMO, have less effect on people.

    True, no matter the amount I was earning, I would like to keep 100% of it (wouldn't we all) to do with as I wished.

    Hell, if I made that much, I would likely give some to charity.

    But I dunno.
    I make little money now - just starting in my career. I find some money to give when a cause comes around that I care for. But if the total taxes I pay which currently exceed 54% of my income (including sales tax, property taxes, income tax, state tax, social security, medicare and local taxes) were reduced, I believe I would have more money to donate to charities. To help a lot of those same people that the government is taxing me to help anyway. The only difference is that I would get to choose who my money helps more directly. As of now, I have no choice - the government chooses and qualifies the people who are 'entitled' to my money and charities get barely anything.

  2. #292
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I make little money now - just starting in my career. I find some money to give when a cause comes around that I care for. But if the total taxes I pay which currently exceed 54% of my income (including sales tax, property taxes, income tax, state tax, social security, medicare and local taxes) were reduced, I believe I would have more money to donate to charities. To help a lot of those same people that the government is taxing me to help anyway. The only difference is that I would get to choose who my money helps more directly. As of now, I have no choice - the government chooses and qualifies the people who are 'entitled' to my money and charities get barely anything.
    I would note that the dems have stated they want to reduce charitable deductions. Which means if you make 500K and you give 100K to charity your taxable income was 400K and you pay taxes on that 400 rather than the 500K

    the current dem plan is that you would only get a partial deduction meaning you would pay taxes on some amount between 420 and 440K even if you gave away 100K. That means charity would no longer merely cost you 60% of what you give (with the almost 40% tax rate the dems are putting in place next year) but it would cost you up to 80% meaning it will be far more expensive to donate to charity

    I believe dems want to curtail private charity so they can claim we need more government enforced income redistribution. Many of them don't like that private charity is an argument against socialism



  3. #293
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Me too!
    And that's why I showed what would/DID happen and what unmitigated Social Darwinism looked like for 5000 years (Serfs and Castles etc) and why they instituted the Income tax in this country.
    And why you couldn't answer then and still can't.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1058853836

    So what will you do when "Fair" leads to a few percent having all the marbles? Which it will with no progressivity.
    Do you really think People making $20k or $25k can pay a "fair"/Flat 25% as someone make $4 million can?
    I don't want his BLOOD/FOOD money and he can't give it.

    A FEW people ARE Much, Much, better than the rest in making money.... or keeping it.
    Thus revolution in some countries and voting an income tax in this country and other democracies.
    First just on the very rich, then a progressive tax Creating the world's largest Middle Class/people with a vested interest.
    That's what America's success is; a large Middle class.
    Tho incomes/assets are polarizing again because the very high Top tax rates of the 50's-80s are now much LESS Progressive.

    Proof of the Pudding:
    Thus, even at current Rates congress (Both parties) have several times had to send out Stimulous checks to make the current tax Less regressive so that the little guy can afford to buy the Goods (Cars, computers, etc) from the companies the big guys own. Even the self-interested big guys (like me and the Congressional GOP) understand this. But you want to squeeze the little consumer even more with a more regressive/flatter/"fairer" tax.
    Yes, even WITH current very mildly Progressive rates.. we still need 'prebates'.
    i totally oppose progressive income taxes because it allows people like you to push for more and more government spending while not suffering any harm so you have no incentive to stop wasteful spending.



  4. #294
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Me too!
    And that's why I showed what would/DID happen and what unmitigated Social Darwinism looked like for 5000 years (Serfs and Castles etc) and why they instituted the Income tax in this country.
    And why you couldn't answer then and still can't.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1058853836

    So what will you do when "Fair" leads to a few percent having all the marbles? Which it will with no progressivity.
    Do you really think People making $20k or $25k can pay a "fair"/Flat 25% as someone make $4 million can?
    I don't want his BLOOD/FOOD money and he can't give it.

    A FEW people ARE Much, Much, better than the rest in making money.... or keeping it.
    Thus revolution in some countries and voting an income tax in this country and other democracies.
    First just on the very rich, then a progressive tax Creating the world's largest Middle Class/people with a vested interest.
    That's what America's success is; a large Middle class.
    Tho incomes/assets are polarizing again because the very high Top tax rates of the 50's-80s are now much LESS Progressive.

    Proof of the Pudding:
    Thus, even at current Rates congress (Both parties) have several times had to send out Stimulous checks to make the current tax Less regressive so that the little guy can afford to buy the Goods (Cars, computers, etc) from the companies the big guys own. Even the self-interested big guys (like me and the Congressional GOP) understand this. But you want to squeeze the little consumer even more with a more regressive/flatter/"fairer" tax.
    Yes, even WITH current very mildly Progressive rates.. we still need 'prebates'.
    Exactly! Thats why I proposed a big arse inheritance tax as the most "fair" tax.

  5. #295
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 View Post
    some just have to pay a larger percentange than others right? because theyre successful, right?

    damn, id be ashamed if i was in a low tack bracket and mooching off those who worked hard.
    Most people in a low tax bracket work hard. Do you really think that the guy who has to pick up your trash has an easy job? Would you be willing to trade jobs with him?

    If you want to bitch about the lazy, I am with you. But don't accuse people who don't make as much as you of being lazy.

  6. #296
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Exactly! Thats why I proposed a big arse inheritance tax as the most "fair" tax.
    oozing envy is what causes a demand for big inheritence taxes

    do you wish to expand it to a sizeable voting block or just stick it to those who have a million in assets (which isn't all that much these days)



  7. #297
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post

    Personally, I think that rates should not rise much at all up to and including an income (single or combined) of $300,000-400,000/year.

    After that, sharper rate increases with earnings increases would, IMO, have less effect on people.

    True, no matter the amount I was earning, I would like to keep 100% of it (wouldn't we all) to do with as I wished.

    Hell, if I made that much, I would likely give some to charity.

    But I dunno.
    Yes, you do-no. I agree totally. In an earlier post I suggested $400,000 as the point where taxes should become quite steep. The average attorney only makes about $90k, the average family MD only makes about $120,000. A lot of people think that is rich, but that is not rich at all. The average specialist MD makes about $360,000 and that is the highest average salary for any common job. Now certainly someone who is particularly sucessful in is career should be able to make a little more than "average", so $400,000K seems to be a natural cutoff point for a large tax bracket hike. If you exclude the top 1% of income earners, the average worker only makes about $40k, so that $400,000 cutoff is ten times average earnings. Also, the top 1% of income starts at, get this - about $400,000. $400,000 seems to be a quite natural taxation point.
    Last edited by imagep; 07-15-10 at 11:02 PM.

  8. #298
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Exactly! Thats why I proposed a big arse inheritance tax as the most "fair" tax.
    The only fair tax that is directly laid on the people is one of apportionment. All others are unfair since it presupposes that you do not have the right to enjoy the gains of your own industry and the right to own and dispose of your property as you see fit.

  9. #299
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Most people in a low tax bracket work hard. Do you really think that the guy who has to pick up your trash has an easy job? Would you be willing to trade jobs with him?

    If you want to bitch about the lazy, I am with you. But don't accuse people who don't make as much as you of being lazy.
    can you prove that claim that most people in a low tax bracket work hard? I call BS on that. Take for example the post office. Do you know how many people in the PO have limited or light duty? Do you know how many OIG investigations take place on this major league employer alone?

    I agree, some at lower levels work very hard. But to say most of them? LOL ever driven by a road crew run by a government unit?



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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Yes, you do-no. I agree totally. In an earlier post I suggested $400,000 as the point where taxes should become quite steep. The average attorney only makes about $90k, the average family MD only makes about $120,000. A lot of people think that is rich, but that is not rich at all. The average specialist MD makes about $360,000 and that is the highest average salary for any common job. Now certainly someone who is particularly sucessful in is career should be able to make a little more than "average", so $400,000K seems to be a natural cutoff point for a large tax bracket hike. If you exclude the top 1% of income earners, the average worker only makes about $40k, so that $400,000 cutoff is ten times average earnings. Also, the top 1% of income starts at, get this - about $400,000. $400,000 seems to be a quite natural taxation point.
    what does a doctor making 500K a year (or two married doctors making 275K a year) get de jure from the government that you do not.



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