View Poll Results: Which tax system is most 'fair'?

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  • Progressive Tax

    90 42.25%
  • Regressive Tax

    0 0%
  • Flat Percentage Tax Rate

    104 48.83%
  • Flat Dollar Tax

    5 2.35%
  • Other

    14 6.57%
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Thread: Which tax system is most 'fair'

  1. #21
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Ask me in a way that doesn't show what an obviously biased partisan hack you are and I may.
    hmm. okay.

    given that wealth is generated via mutually beneficial trade in which resources are moved to higher uses and in which both sides prefer that which they are left with after the trade; someone who is generating a higher income is by definition already donating more in terms of helping his fellow citizens. why would you wish to deliberately design a tax system built around punishing and disincentiving that, especially when such a model is guaranteed to reduce social cohesion and increase conflict via class struggle between the payers and the moochers?

  2. #22
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    hmm. okay.

    given that wealth is generated via mutually beneficial trade in which resources are moved to higher uses and in which both sides prefer that which they are left with after the trade; someone who is generating a higher income is by definition already donating more in terms of helping his fellow citizens. why would you wish to deliberately design a tax system built around punishing and disincentiving that, especially when such a model is guaranteed to reduce social cohesion and increase conflict via class struggle between the payers and the moochers?
    While this is a more articulate way of asking, it is articulate partisan hackery. Better luck next time.

  3. #23
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Ask me in a way that doesn't show what an obviously biased partisan hack you are and I may.
    In other words, you can't.

    Which we already knew in advance.

  4. #24
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    While this is a more articulate way of asking, it is articulate partisan hackery. Better luck next time.
    okay, you were asked nicely. now you are simply trying to avoid the question.

  5. #25
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    In other words, you can't.

    Which we already knew in advance.
    It's not my fault you can't be a partisan hack long enough to not ask like a partisan hack.

    Which we already knew in advance.

  6. #26
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    hmm. okay.

    given that wealth is generated via mutually beneficial trade in which resources are moved to higher uses and in which both sides prefer that which they are left with after the trade; someone who is generating a higher income is by definition already donating more in terms of helping his fellow citizens. why would you wish to deliberately design a tax system built around punishing and disincentiving that, especially when such a model is guaranteed to reduce social cohesion and increase conflict via class struggle between the payers and the moochers?
    Well in terms of social cohesion.. lets look at the top 10 countries people report to be the most happy. If you look closely you will see countries with much higher degree of progressive taxation.. you will note currently the US is much lower on the chart placing 17th with very few social programs for the people.

    Top 10 happiest countries in the world | Financial Jesus

    Your theories on economic policy go to far. Less taxation of the wealthy via flat taxation causes overt stress on the working poor.. who have much less disposable income then the wealthy. Basically a flat tax would be regressive creating a weaker consumer base that is already more deprived as a result of the explosion of low quality low paying service industry jobs. A flat tax would disproportionately punish low income brackets. A progressive Tax is more appropriate from a consumer economy perspective.

    The class struggle is already on.. and what your suggesting is a tad like the pot calling the kettle black.
    Last edited by Gabriel; 07-10-10 at 09:23 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    okay, you were asked nicely. now you are simply trying to avoid the question.
    Not at all. You could have simply asked me, "Why do you believe in the progressive tax" instead of making all those automatic judgments against the system.

    I will say this. Conservatives argue that the progressive tax steals from the wealthier despite not getting more benefits from the progressive tax. That the wealthiest pay more money while the poorer get more services from the government.

    But that's not necessarily the case.

    For example, what about tax cuts to large businesses to incentivize them to build their businesses in a location? That disincentivizes small businesses, after all, and it favors large businesses over small businesses despite small businesses hiring half of the employees in the U.S. So why should large-scale businesses get tax cuts as incentives to build their operations in a certain locale? That's not fair.

    Also, the wealthiest have more pull in politics. Politicians listen to lobbyists who pay them the most campaign contributions, which comes from the largest businesses. Small businesses, however, can't affect politicians in an equal way because they can't afford contributions on an equal level. Therefore, politicians are affected more from lobbying efforts of large businesses over small businesses.

    This then goes into the innate inequality of no-bid contracts that local, state, and the federal government dole out as corporate welfare to those large businesses who donate the most contributions to the most politicians. No-bid contracts stifle competition and it increases tax money spent to government contractors since there's no impetus to induce competitive prices to contractors.

    So because of this process of the wealthiest using their wealth to influence policy to garner government contracts without competitive bids, the wealthiest aren't really being taxed at all. They give cutbacks to the politicians for the government bids and make their money back and profit by increasing the price for that contract.

    So the ones who really get squeezed aren't the wealthy, who make their money back in government influence, nor from the poor, who are too poor to pay taxes, but the middle class who give all their money to taxes for government bids that pay off the wealthy.

    So until conservatives start demanding abolition of no-bid contracts and campaign financing reform, which innately favors the wealthy to influence policy over the poor, don't talk about fairness in taxes.

    Also, an argument could be said that the wealthy DO get more benefit from government services than the poor do. Businesses benefit more from a public school system from which to recruit employees from. Businesses benefit more from a universal health care system because it keeps their employees healthy. Businesses benefit more from roads and infrastructure because it allows more of their goods to be transported to markets. Businesses benefit more from defense spending because it allows them to indulge in global trade without fear of piracy.

    So while the wealthy receive less direct benefits from the progressive tax system, they receive many more indirect benefits.

  8. #28
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    I prefer no tax, or a tax for localities and their projects.

    I think the rich should pay more taxes because they are the ones who designed the current failing economic system. I am tired of our governments socializing the risk while industry gets to privatize the profits and saddle in cahoots with the banking system on top of it.

    They made this mess now they can bail us out.

  9. #29
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    hmm. okay.

    given that wealth is generated via mutually beneficial trade in which resources are moved to higher uses and in which both sides prefer that which they are left with after the trade; someone who is generating a higher income is by definition already donating more in terms of helping his fellow citizens. why would you wish to deliberately design a tax system built around punishing and disincentiving that, especially when such a model is guaranteed to reduce social cohesion and increase conflict via class struggle between the payers and the moochers?
    because the votes of non producers count as much as a superstar who makes lots of money and dems realize that buying the votes of the non producers with that man's money is a good way to become rich themselves without producing anything of value.

    Just look at many of the posters on this board who ooze envy and hatred of the wealthy.



  10. #30
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Well in terms of social cohesion.. lets look at the top 10 countries people report to be the most happy. If you look closely you will see countries with much higher degree of progressive taxation.. you will note currently the US is much lower on the chart placing 17th with very few social programs for the people.

    Top 10 happiest countries in the world | Financial Jesus

    Your theories on economic policy go to far. Less taxation of the wealthy via flat taxation causes overt stress on the working poor.. who have much less disposable income then the wealthy. Basically a flat tax would be regressive creating a weaker consumer base that is already more deprived as a result of the explosion of low quality low paying service industry jobs. A flat tax would disproportionately punish low income brackets. A progressive Tax is more appropriate from a consumer economy perspective.

    The class struggle is already on.. and what your suggesting is a tad like the pot calling the kettle black.
    you believe that nonsense? ten happiest countries-what a great reason to Scew up america's freedom



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