View Poll Results: Which tax system is most 'fair'?

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  • Progressive Tax

    90 42.25%
  • Regressive Tax

    0 0%
  • Flat Percentage Tax Rate

    104 48.83%
  • Flat Dollar Tax

    5 2.35%
  • Other

    14 6.57%
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Thread: Which tax system is most 'fair'

  1. #241
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Ok, your right.

    Of course, 4.0 counts for grades 96-100. Why would we do that? Are we soaking the smart people, taking away their well deserved perecentage points?
    since you want to avoid my point about people being given the same opportunities but not the same results lets ask this

    What would happen to the overall rate of knowledge acquisition if a teacher gave everyone the same grade no matter how they did? What would be the incentive to be a top scholar if you had to give half of your A grades to someone who made D's-be his poor grades are due to lack of intelligence, lack of a stable family or lack of effort?>



  2. #242
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    since you want to avoid my point about people being given the same opportunities but not the same results lets ask this

    What would happen to the overall rate of knowledge acquisition if a teacher gave everyone the same grade no matter how they did? What would be the incentive to be a top scholar if you had to give half of your A grades to someone who made D's-be his poor grades are due to lack of intelligence, lack of a stable family or lack of effort?>
    I realize what would happen, you have proven the failures of communism and the costs of equality very well. My point was for a progressive tax system, not communist russia. Why do we give everyone who gets 96-100% the same result, a 4.0 GPA. Stability, those people have worked very hard for a 100%, it would be terrible for them to lose it all by dropping 1%.

  3. #243
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I realize what would happen, you have proven the failures of communism and the costs of equality very well. My point was for a progressive tax system, not communist russia. Why do we give everyone who gets 96-100% the same result, a 4.0 GPA. Stability, those people have worked very hard for a 100%, it would be terrible for them to lose it all by dropping 1%.
    a progressive tax system along with a death confiscation tax was a main plank in the book that the Russian Communists claimed to follow



  4. #244
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I'd say that income redistributionists and class warfare experts constantly say that but in reality its nonsense. Rich are rich because they engage in behavior that others find valuable. The government doesn't give them that wealth
    That's true of many self-made entrepreneurs but it definitely cannot be generalized to the wealthy classes as a whole. In fact, capitalist elites have been in bed with the State from the beginning. They rely on the banditry of the State for their largesse. If this were not true they would throw their support behind libertarians and even anarchists. Clearly they do not which is why the Libertarian Party performs so poorly in elections. For starters I recommend an eye-opening and well-written essay by Kevin Carison: The Iron First Behind the Invisible Hand: Corporate Capitalism As a State-Guaranteed System of Privilege.
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  5. #245
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    since you want to avoid my point about people being given the same opportunities but not the same results lets ask this

    What would happen to the overall rate of knowledge acquisition if a teacher gave everyone the same grade no matter how they did? What would be the incentive to be a top scholar if you had to give half of your A grades to someone who made D's-be his poor grades are due to lack of intelligence, lack of a stable family or lack of effort?>
    We've had "fair' throughout the history of humanity.
    Some people for reason of IQ, knack, or other advantage (including inheritance), end up with all the marbles.

    Look back at the planet 500 years or 5000 years.
    What would happen is a system of Lords and Serfs.. landowners/servants/slaves.
    Or look back at this very country 100 years and Why they instituted the income tax in the first place; The robber barrons Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie, etc. It was just to tax the top few percent.
    While men in virtual indenture servitude worked in mines, rail gangs, etc.

    Then look a THIS country in the 1950's through the 1980s when the top marginal rate was a "Communist" 50%-91%. We grew like crazy with less income disparity.
    Why bring in "Russia" .. we have US!

    The countries with the highest GDPs are the most 'socialist'. EU and Scandinavia. (and Japan)
    Last edited by mbig; 07-12-10 at 11:00 PM.
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  6. #246
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sov View Post
    That's true of many self-made entrepreneurs but it definitely cannot be generalized to the wealthy classes as a whole. In fact, capitalist elites have been in bed with the State from the beginning. They rely on the banditry of the State for their largesse. If this were not true they would throw their support behind libertarians and even anarchists. Clearly they do not which is why the Libertarian Party performs so poorly in elections. For starters I recommend an eye-opening and well-written essay by Kevin Carison: The Iron First Behind the Invisible Hand: Corporate Capitalism As a State-Guaranteed System of Privilege.
    sorry, I already own a black helicopter, am a freemason and a member of skull and bones.



  7. #247
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    We've had "fair' throughout the history of humanity.
    Some people for reason of IQ, knack, or other advantage (including inheritance), end up with all the marbles.

    Look back at the planet 500 years or 5000 years.
    What would happen is a system of Lords and Serfs.. landowners/servants/slaves.
    Or look back at this very country 100 years and why they instituted the income tax in the first place; The robber barrons Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie, etc. While men in virtual indenture servitude worked in mines, rail gangs, etc.

    Then look a THIS country in the 1950's through the 1980s when the top marginal rate was a "Communist" 50%-91%. We grew like crazy with less income disparity.
    Why bring in "Russia" .. we have US!
    so what. I don't have a moral duty to pay for your existence merely because you demand I do so. Your existence does not benefit me so why should I be forced to benefit you?

    Now I believe in private charity (something Obama seems to want to cut back on) but that is different than being forced to pay for others.

    Your existence is not a just claim on the wealth of others and I am not responsible or at fault for your situation

    Those



  8. #248
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a progressive tax system along with a death confiscation tax was a main plank in the book that the Russian Communists claimed to follow
    Ok, well that is not my point. I am saying people are willing to sacrifice some for stability. Why would someone with a 100% want to have the same score as someone with a 96%? Most likely so they can still maintain a 4.0 GPA, even if they happen to bubble in the wrong answer on accident. They have worked really hard and want a little insurance in case their grade drops.

    Put this in context of a tax. I am not going to say a rich person has not worked hard. They obviosly have, and they most likely deserve their money. However, some people might be concerned their income could fall. They may prefer to have their income taxes get smaller if their income takes a turn for the worst.

    Also, like in the GPA, someone with a 97% sure values that 1% more than the below average, lazy student getting a D. The lazy student could care less if he gets a 69% or a 61% most likely. Put this in the context of someones income. Someone who makes $1,000,000 would certainly hate to now make $990,000. A person who makes 10,000 would certainly hate to now make 9,900. However, someone making only $10,000 loosing $100 of income is going to have to make some tough choices about what they are going to be able to buy. They value each dollar a lot, because they have less, just like someone earning a 97% would value a percentage point more than someone getting a 65.

  9. #249
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so what. I don't have a moral duty to pay for your existence merely because you demand I do so. Your existence does not benefit me so why should I be forced to benefit you?

    Now I believe in private charity (something Obama seems to want to cut back on) but that is different than being forced to pay for others.

    Your existence is not a just claim on the wealth of others and I am not responsible or at fault for your situation

    Those
    First let's be clear.
    If anyone is paying for anyone else tax-wise.. it's me for you.
    [unlike you] I understand the economy/manage money and have been paying top rates when they were astronomical.

    Second.
    You didn't/Couldn't answer me.
    Because as I pointed out.. what's "fair" (in the most brutal/simple sense) doesn't work.
    You remember. Serfs and Castles.. JP Morgan, Rail gangs, and 500 servants.
    The whole expanse of history.

    That's your basic problem. How do you solve it?
    Put 85% of the country on the whim of charity or let them have some self-respect?
    Alas. we're [eventually] a democracy and even tho some are really stupid (poor AND conservative), they have/will eventually distribute the money so the majority can live. Ahh democracy.

    You couldn't answer either when I pointed out this countries greatest growth and world ascendency was it's highest tax rates; During the Cold War. Destroying your "Communist" ploy.
    Last edited by mbig; 07-12-10 at 11:16 PM.
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  10. #250
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    First let's be clear.
    If anyone is paying for anyone else tax-wise.. it's me for you.
    [unlike you] I understand the economy/manage money and have been paying top rates when they were astronomical.

    Second.
    You didn't/Couldn't answer me.
    Because as I pointed out.. what's "fair" (in the most brutal/simple sense) doesn't work.
    You remember. Serfs and Castles.. JP Morgan, Rail gangs, and 300 servants.

    That's your basic problem. How do you solve it?
    Put 85% of the country on the whim of charity or let them have some self-respect?

    You couldn't answer either when I pointed out this countries greatest growth and world ascendency was it's highest tax rates; During the Cold War. Porking your "Communist" ploy.
    cause and effect apparently is not your strong point. America became the greatest nation in the world before we had a massive welfare state.

    Self respect doesn't come from being addicted to the dole and beholden to your Dem masters

    how are you paying my share of the taxes? THat is a major laugher



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