View Poll Results: Which tax system is most 'fair'?

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  • Progressive Tax

    90 42.25%
  • Regressive Tax

    0 0%
  • Flat Percentage Tax Rate

    104 48.83%
  • Flat Dollar Tax

    5 2.35%
  • Other

    14 6.57%
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Thread: Which tax system is most 'fair'

  1. #231
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    What creates class warfare is a widening of the gap between the wealthy socially privileged and the underprivileged working poor. Many wealthy have done nothing or do very little compared to working class citizens.. They don't have to.

    Your argument does not get to the heart of the matter. The axiom of needs having cost to live in a capitalist society is a greater cost to low income people then wealthy. The wealthy spend a microscopic percentage of their money on needs. Hence forth in a consumer market where such a large percentage of the population lives and works a flat tax is disproportionately punishing to the working class.

    A flat tax is less fair to the working class and increases the wealth of the upper economic strata by differing it to lower incomes.

    A flat tax is not appropriate a progressive taxation is by far more egalitarian and fair. Arguing the rich deserve all the money they have is blatantly morally and intellectually dishonest. One can only rationalise that it is done out of shear political ideological partisanship and nauseating to anyone with a sense of fairness. You have no argument. You are suggesting working poor don't work? The wealthy deserve what they get from swindling the poor on cost of labour and selling the goods derived from that at a higher value then they paid for it.
    Wow, you sound like a socialist (to the far right extreme). But it sounds about right to me (and I am not a socialist by the way). Excellent post.

  2. #232
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your idiotic attacks on the rich that assume the rich somehow did something improper destroys and credibility you have on the issue. Does Elton John or the Eagles swindle people by charging 100 dollars a ticket? How about Andy Roddick making a few million a year hitting a tennis ball? what about a top doctor who has more people demanding his services than he has time? WTF have they swindled?

    those who whine that the rich are rich due to cheating sounds like a poor loser.
    Your are correct to the extent that those particular individuals did not swindle anyone. But they do live in a society that created such an economic atmospher in which they were able to become insainly rich. Is it to much to ask for them to pay a good portion in return for the benefits of our society that they have so fortunately enjoyed? There are other individuals though who have obtained great wealth in not so admirable circumstances. As long as great wealth can be obtained honorable, and moraly, and within our laws, there is nothing wrong with obtaining great wealth - just be prepared to pay up.

    So far I have not seen any post by anyone sugggesting that we should sieze all the wealth of anyone. Most very rich people could afford a much higher rate of taxation and their lifestyle will not suffer one iota from it. However if you tax any one additional dollar from the average persons wage, they will at some point in their life be poorer for it.

  3. #233
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Very true. The ruling class tends to make our tax laws, and they make them to benefit themselves. The ruling class voted themselves billions in bailout money, they got their hands of billions of the spendulous money, they created president for the government socializing losses whenever the losses are made by the ruling class. The ruling class has very much declared war on the masses.
    there are two sides to that class

    one side appeals to wealth creators and are often engaged in that behavior. Their goal is to make the pie as big as possible since they plan on owning alot of the pie. The other side of the rich want to take as much of the pie as the other side makes. They think that they are entitled to a large slice of the pie because they are intelligent or because it is "fair". They get their power not by producing the pie (like the first group) but by using pie others make to be voted into positions of power where they can control the slciing of the pie.

    the politicians who represent the first group try to get power by telling their people that they will protect them from the pie stealers. The second group, of course-get their power by taking the pie and giving it to those who want it but don't make it.



  4. #234
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Your are correct to the extent that those particular individuals did not swindle anyone. But they do live in a society that created such an economic atmospher in which they were able to become insainly rich. Is it to much to ask for them to pay a good portion in return for the benefits of our society that they have so fortunately enjoyed? There are other individuals though who have obtained great wealth in not so admirable circumstances. As long as great wealth can be obtained honorable, and moraly, and within our laws, there is nothing wrong with obtaining great wealth - just be prepared to pay up.

    So far I have not seen any post by anyone sugggesting that we should sieze all the wealth of anyone. Most very rich people could afford a much higher rate of taxation and their lifestyle will not suffer one iota from it. However if you tax any one additional dollar from the average persons wage, they will at some point in their life be poorer for it.
    every society has had very rich people compared to the average person. Its not the government in place that causes that so stop trying to justify looting the successful as some sort of payment allowing them to exist by the current government

    since you are clearly not one of the very rich, HTF do you get off claiming the massive tax hikes that will hit them next year will not affect their lifestyles.

    everyone should pay for what they use in an ideal society., Since we have people who are truly disabled through no fault of their own, as well as those who were injured or orphaned due to them or their parents serving the society or government, others will have to pick up their load. This is easily accomplished by a fair tax, or a flat tax without creating the evil a progressive income tax causes--ie the ability a a majority of looters to vote themselves more and more and more wealth of the producers--which, in the long run, cuts the throats of the parasites when the producers stop producing or move away.



  5. #235
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the vast majority of millionaires are first-generation. small business owners and the like.
    Why are we discussing the "vast majority of millionaires"? The vast majority of millionaires aint rich! The old lady down the street that saved all her life and now has a million bucks in the bank has nothing to do with anything. Except for real estate and cars we generally do not tax wealth in America, only income. The vast majority of millionaires are not even in the top income tax bracket.

  6. #236
    Professor
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Why are we discussing the "vast majority of millionaires"? The vast majority of millionaires aint rich! The old lady down the street that saved all her life and now has a million bucks in the bank has nothing to do with anything. Except for real estate and cars we generally do not tax wealth in America, only income. The vast majority of millionaires are not even in the top income tax bracket.
    Income is wealth....

  7. #237
    Professor

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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I'd say that income redistributionists and class warfare experts constantly say that but in reality its nonsense. Rich are rich because they engage in behavior that others find valuable. The government doesn't give them that wealth.

    I refer again to the school situation-those who make top grades and get valuable scholarships aren't given anything more than the C students or the flunk outs. Why should a kid who busts his hump (even if his valedictorian award is aided by natural talent and caring parents that the flunk outs don't have) have to pay more for his public schooling than a class clown who comes to school stoned or hung over and never does his homework? BOth were given the same opportunities by the government yet the outcome is very different. taxes should be based on that opportunity not the Grade Point Average
    GPA is a progressive measure.

  8. #238
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Why are we discussing the "vast majority of millionaires"? The vast majority of millionaires aint rich! The old lady down the street that saved all her life and now has a million bucks in the bank has nothing to do with anything. Except for real estate and cars we generally do not tax wealth in America, only income. The vast majority of millionaires are not even in the top income tax bracket.
    yet many of those "non rich people" are going to lose the same amount of their next dollar as the guy making a billion a month.

    the dems often talk about Paris Hilton and Bill Gates yet go after the guy who just made partner (after working 70 billable hour weeks for a decade) at Cravath Swaine and Moore or a guy who slaved at his small business for most of his life.

    Its sort of like the dem ploy of screaming about banning "assault weapons" while running a film clip of Rambo hosing down half the NVA with a belt fed FN heavy machine gun when in reality the law targets the gun I used to win a couple dozen major skeet tournaments with or the pistol my roommate (when I was on the national junior teamI used in an Olympic games pistol competition



  9. #239
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    GPA is a progressive measure.
    that is a clever attempt at avoiding the point. A for effort, Fail for rebuttal



  10. #240
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is a clever attempt at avoiding the point. A for effort, Fail for rebuttal
    Ok, your right.

    Of course, 4.0 counts for grades 96-100. Why would we do that? Are we soaking the smart people, taking away their well deserved perecentage points?

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