View Poll Results: Which tax system is most 'fair'?

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  • Progressive Tax

    90 42.25%
  • Regressive Tax

    0 0%
  • Flat Percentage Tax Rate

    104 48.83%
  • Flat Dollar Tax

    5 2.35%
  • Other

    14 6.57%
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Thread: Which tax system is most 'fair'

  1. #221
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Ray Powell, late Professor of Economics at Yale, one of the most respected and well liked Professors at the school and hardly a conservative noted that if all wealth was gathered up and equally divided among the citizens of the USA (this was in 1977) by 2050 the income disparities would be about the same as they were in 1977

    one has to merely look at dozens of mega lottery winners, game show champions or former boxing title holders who are bankrupt or destitute within a mere few years after their fortune was made.

    Winners win while losers lose

    look at tennis and golf. THe top 5-6 competitiors win more titles than the rest of the entire profession combined. That is what is called top heavy accumulation of wealth yet no one thinks we ought to whack Rafa Nadal in the knee or hamstring Serena Williams

    those who want to give a government the power to make things fair give a government the power to rape everyone.
    Thats EXACTLY why I support inheritance tax. Inheritance tax serves the purpose of redistributing wealth, but only after the person who created the wealth is finish with it. And it constantly redistributes wealth each and ever year so that in 50 more years we don't have to worry about redistribuing again. If "winners win" then indivudals who are winners will be able to become rich without the aid of inheritance. If "loosers loose" they really dont deserve any "free money" that they didn't earn to begin with.

  2. #222
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    have you ever considered the fact that a tax system that allows people to survive somewhat comfortably without paying taxes or providing any real benefit to society causes a lack of effort on their part and keeps them mired in what some call poverty?
    I really dont think that the lack of taxes is what keeps poor people poor - much more likely that welfare keeps them poor, that and just a general lack of personal inititative. Many poor people are quite happy being poor. I personally dont mind poor people as long as they aint sucking off the taxpayer. I don't know that taxing the poor will incentivise them to put forth any more effort, but ending any taxpayer provided support will certainly incentivise them to work (or steal, but generally poor people dont have enough personal inititive to steal).

  3. #223
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Which doesn't address the issue that the income tax could be made into a voluntary tax simply by making it a tax on the employer on the transaction they perform when they pay someone for work.
    It already is, there are two ways to look at everything. I am an employer, when I hire someone I already take into account how much I am going to have to pay that person in his takehome paycheck AND I take into account how much I am going to have to send to the IRS. If it were to be done the way you suggest, I would take a look at how much my employees take home now and pay them that exact same amount, and then send to the government the same amount I am now. There is no real net effect in what you suggest, other that to make the employer feel like he is being taxed to death while his employee gets away without paying taxes.

  4. #224
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    we ought to have a real voluntary tax system

    it would kill of those who live off the taxes of others rather quickly

    that's what I love about a consumption tax-if you are frugal and want to increase your wealth, you don't buy a new car every year or the newest and greatest droid phone the minute it comes out

    the current tax system-the pandering progressive tax and the death confiscation tax-both punish thrift and frugality
    I hope you mean that in jest. You see, we would be screwed without the lower middle class to do our crap work. The amount of taxes that you directly pay has absolutley nothing to do with your value to society. Many times people who pay the least are our most valuable citizens. And if you happen to be one of those people who voted for the fair tax, then you should already be aware that 30% of every dollar that everyone spends is a hidden tax (according to the fair tax doctrine).

  5. #225
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so tell me-how do the evil rich manage to make 22% of the income and pay almost 40% of the income tax with all those loopholes and off shore foundations

    only clowns think most of those targeted for the tax hikes have off shore foundations.
    Because there is a base amount (personal exemption and standard deduction) that none of us have to pay tax on. Since most of us are not rich, we gain most of the tax advantage that the base amount creates. Thats the way it should be. By the way, I am not so sure that your numbers are valid, what are you defining rich as being, and where did you find that particular set of numbers? I am not saying those figures are wrong, just that I may tend to interpret them differently - such as the rich may actually pay 40% of the taxes, but it is highly likely that there "excess" income is something more like 99% of all "excess" income (defining "excess" as income that is above any normal wage or value of physical/mental effort put forth in creating it).

  6. #226
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    lets cut the crap-those who want progressive taxes do so because of class envy
    Lets cut the crap-those who think that they have a right to inheritance (someone elses money) do so because of class envy (because they envy being in the working class)

    People who accuse others of having class envy tend to be elitest (meaning they belive that some peole are entitled to something that they did not earn).

  7. #227
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Thats EXACTLY why I support inheritance tax. Inheritance tax serves the purpose of redistributing wealth, but only after the person who created the wealth is finish with it. And it constantly redistributes wealth each and ever year so that in 50 more years we don't have to worry about redistribuing again. If "winners win" then indivudals who are winners will be able to become rich without the aid of inheritance. If "loosers loose" they really dont deserve any "free money" that they didn't earn to begin with.
    the government has no business doing that and you seem to be envious. The government didn't earn it and people like you certainly didn't own it. What I earn I should have the right to determine what happens with it and if I want to set my son up so he can say train for the olympic games rather than work that is my business.

    Tell me why you deserve what I worked hard to make and pay more than 50% of each additional dollar I make?

    speaking of winners. DO you think your child would be able to compete-in terms of talent-with Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf's son if he decides to be a tennis pro? should we tax his gene advantage which will give him a huge advantage over the vast majority of children in the world? How about a daughter who is the offspring of two super models? She's most likely going to enjoy the huge advantages beautiful women have over their plainer peers.

    the government's job is not to guarantee equality of outcome.



  8. #228
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Because there is a base amount (personal exemption and standard deduction) that none of us have to pay tax on. Since most of us are not rich, we gain most of the tax advantage that the base amount creates. Thats the way it should be. By the way, I am not so sure that your numbers are valid, what are you defining rich as being, and where did you find that particular set of numbers? I am not saying those figures are wrong, just that I may tend to interpret them differently - such as the rich may actually pay 40% of the taxes, but it is highly likely that there "excess" income is something more like 99% of all "excess" income (defining "excess" as income that is above any normal wage or value of physical/mental effort put forth in creating it).
    top 1%. Obama considers anyone making more than 200K a year rich enough to be targeted for additional soaking.

    There was an interesting editorial in the WSJ today about the Obamacare debacle and how dems are now admitting its a massive wealth transfer mechanism. The editorial noted that in their desire to make things more "even" the dems are going to make the overall pie much much smaller which will actually hurt the dependent class more than it will help.

    Killing the rich folks golden geese doesnt give the poor more eggs.



  9. #229
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I dont know so much about that. The rich are rich because of our system of government and what the govenment provides. I would say that the rich pay more in taxes because they reap more of the benefits provided by government - thats why they are rich.

    Really, what's it matter to a poor person if he gets robbed? He didn't loose much. But if a rich man gets robbed, he can loose millions. So wouldn't you agree that the rich man benefits more from our police and military and fire protection than the poor guy?
    I'd say that income redistributionists and class warfare experts constantly say that but in reality its nonsense. Rich are rich because they engage in behavior that others find valuable. The government doesn't give them that wealth.

    I refer again to the school situation-those who make top grades and get valuable scholarships aren't given anything more than the C students or the flunk outs. Why should a kid who busts his hump (even if his valedictorian award is aided by natural talent and caring parents that the flunk outs don't have) have to pay more for his public schooling than a class clown who comes to school stoned or hung over and never does his homework? BOth were given the same opportunities by the government yet the outcome is very different. taxes should be based on that opportunity not the Grade Point Average



  10. #230
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I agree with the class warfare part. People who think it died or doesn't exist are deluding themselves.
    Very true. The ruling class tends to make our tax laws, and they make them to benefit themselves. The ruling class voted themselves billions in bailout money, they got their hands of billions of the spendulous money, they created president for the government socializing losses whenever the losses are made by the ruling class. The ruling class has very much declared war on the masses.

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