View Poll Results: Which tax system is most 'fair'?

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  • Progressive Tax

    90 42.25%
  • Regressive Tax

    0 0%
  • Flat Percentage Tax Rate

    104 48.83%
  • Flat Dollar Tax

    5 2.35%
  • Other

    14 6.57%
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Thread: Which tax system is most 'fair'

  1. #211
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    all very true!

  2. #212
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Personally, I do not think property tax should exist at all.
    Ditto here!

  3. #213
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the rich get more>

    So the rich are clearly paying far far more than they use to make up for all those who don't pay near as much as they use.
    I dont know so much about that. The rich are rich because of our system of government and what the govenment provides. I would say that the rich pay more in taxes because they reap more of the benefits provided by government - thats why they are rich.

    Really, what's it matter to a poor person if he gets robbed? He didn't loose much. But if a rich man gets robbed, he can loose millions. So wouldn't you agree that the rich man benefits more from our police and military and fire protection than the poor guy?

  4. #214
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Other, all tax systems are inherently unfair, they are legalized theft.
    That answer would be incorrect. As citizens of a particular country, we agree to the laws and taxes of that country. If you dont like the laws, then either change them or move. Taxes are required to live in a civilized society, they are the price for the product. If I were to purchase a product from the store, I would have to pay the price that the store required, otherwise using that product would be theft. Non-payment of taxes that we have agreed upon as a society is theft. If you dont like the price, then please vote with your feet.

  5. #215
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Like your posts MD but this is wrong.

    Fairytax's "23%" is actually "23% tax inclusive".. which is really 30% (exclusive) the way everyone else on the planet calculates it.
    A $100 item will cost $130. Fairytax calls that "23%" tax inclusive.
    Which "is just the beginning of it's problems".
    not really. it's presented tax inclusive because that's the way income and payroll taxes are figured as well. if you want to compare a sales tax tax exclusive rate to an income rate tax exclusive, that's fine; but to claim that we should discuss the income tax in tax inclusive terms and the fairtax in tax exclusive terms simply because that makes the income tax sound like a better comparative rate than it really is....

    It has it's own bureaucracy figuring and giving out prebates. And of course since everyone in the country now has the greatest incentive in history to become scofflaws (and everyone a tax collector), there would be a huge enforcement staff needed to stop the BLACK/cash economy that would result
    actually sales taxes at the retail level are easier to enforce and more difficult to cheat on than income taxes. for me to attempt to cheat on my income tax, all it requres is that i lie as i fill out a form, in front of no one. for me to attempt to cheat on a retail sales tax, i have to convince Wal-Mart to become my co-conspirator, when they have nothing to gain and much to lose.

    in addition, the move from an income to a retail sales tax significantly reduces the number of collection points by about 80% (from 145 million to about 25 million), as each individual is no longer filing a return.

    so, to cap; you claim that far fewer filers, operating under conditions that reduce the incentives for cheating and make it more difficult to do so would be a population that is harder to enforce?

    And Independent scoring of Fairytax's even claimed 30% rate is more in the mid 50's% range
    firstly, that scoring depends on changing the law to exclude some goods and services at the retail level. so yeah. if you turn the FairTax into something other than the FairTax; then the result will be different.

    secondly this article you cited? is a friggin joke. the title alone Does adding 30% to the price of every house sold sound like a good idea to you?, is laughable. when you reduce one kind of taxation and add another, you can't pretend the subtraction didn't happen. furthermore, the tax would only apply to houses sold at the RETAIL level; only new houses, not every one. then there is this gem:
    sending monthly checks to every household based on income. Aside from the incredible complexity and intrusiveness of tracking every American's monthly income--and creating a de facto national welfare program--the FairTax does not include the cost of this rebate in the tax rate.
    actually the FairTax rate does account for the cost of the rebate, it's not based on income (but by the number of members in the household), and the US government already tries (and generally fails) to track every households' income. this guy is either a particularly bad liar, or a friggin moron.

    Another Basic problem being being you just can't reduce the upper 1%'s taxes by 90% without making someone else pay.
    i'd like to see your figure on how the upper 1% would see their taxes cut by 90%; but you are correct. the FairTax does expand the tax base. now included are our large illegal immigrant population (who buy things at wal-mart), drug dealers and other members of the underground economy (who do the same), and millions of annual visitors to our shores. also included are all those corporations who famously spend billions of dollars avoiding their corporate tax burden; but who still need to purchase office supplies and buildings.

    It's grotesquely regressive.
    in fact it is more progressive than our current system.

    To cloak this obvious scam they give a prebate which is supposed to take care of the lower incomes, but of course it doesn't.
    in fact by allowing all Americans to live tax-free up to the poverty line, it does.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-12-10 at 08:40 PM.

  6. #216
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    I think perhaps a (mwahahah) fairly "fair" tax (for arbitrary definitions of "fair") would be one that taxed the overall net worth of someone.

    As an example, a 10% tax on the net worth of a person per year.

    That would seem to tax the very rich quite a bit more than the very poor, even if it were only 10% of their very rich...richness.

    But then again, this is just a half-formed idea that occurred to me.

    And besides, calculating the individual net worth of everyone in the US...

    /shudder
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #217
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We've had a progressive tax system for near on 100 years.
    In the minds of many, prosperity hasn't been spread and the wealth has continued to accumulate at the top.

    Is that a failing at the implementation of the progressive tax?
    Absolutely not. If it were not for our progressive tax system, even more wealth would have accumulated at the top and the middle class would likely not exist at all.

  8. #218
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Absolutely not. If it were not for our progressive tax system, even more wealth would have accumulated at the top and the middle class would likely not exist at all.
    Yes.... because the proper role of government is to make sure that there is a classed society, and that some people just dont have too damn much.


    Greed is wanting more than you "need".
    You "need" whatever a liberal thinks you should be allowed to have.

  9. #219
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We've had a progressive tax system for near on 100 years.
    In the minds of many, prosperity hasn't been spread and the wealth has continued to accumulate at the top.

    Is that a failing at the implementation of the progressive tax?
    It wasn't so much of a problem in the 60s and they had a booming economy, so lets just do what they did

  10. #220
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Which tax system is most 'fair'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    in fact by allowing all Americans to live tax-free up to the poverty line, it does.
    That's not correct. The prebate is not about "allowing all Americans to live tax-free up to the poverty line", it is about providing people who make below the poverty line with more tax-prebate than they pay in taxes. Or more directly, it is a feeble attempt on the part of the conservitive elite to incourage liberal to vote for it (after all, liberals are all-for more welfare). Even liberals are not stuipid enough to take the bate.

    What you are suggesting would only be logical if all poor people made exactly the maximum income to be considered impoverished.

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