View Poll Results: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

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  • yes, the democrats need more money to spend

    20 40.82%
  • No, I want to keep my own money

    29 59.18%
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Thread: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

  1. #171
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Turtledude, just to let you know where I am coming from, let me tell you a little about myself.

    My parents were both teachers, so I was brought up in an environment where education was very important, and I was raised in an environment where food was always on the table, but it was never escargot or caviar. I went to a local jr. college for two years because they gave me a scholarship, I then joined the military largely for the college benefits, eventually returning to a state university to complete my degree, and when I graduated, I graduated with a modest amount of student loan debt and a lot of experience working full time jobs while attending college. Never did anyone other than myself (and the military) pay for any of my college living expenses or tuition. I then worked several years as a low level manager for a couple of very large corporations, during which time I managed to purchase a house (with the obligatory mortgage) and I saved a small amount of money. I used that money to start a business 21 years ago, and I have managed to be fairly self sufficient ever since.

    At no time in my life was anything outside of a very typical middle class upbringing ever given to me. I now have a fairly decent income, nothing to brag about but it is in the low six figure range. I have the big house (4,000+ sf on 5 acres with a fishing pond, an ornamental koi pond, a large inground swimming pool, a weight room, a pool table, a couple of guest rooms, etc), several nice vehicles, and equity in the business that I started myself from virtually nothing. I am quite proud that everything I have done has been on my own. I would have it no other way.

    I do envy those who are superior enough in intellect or physical attributes to have much more success than I have been, and I am in no way resentful of those people. But I do resent the fact that every April I have to write a big fat tax check to pay for not only the poor and lazy, but the rich and lazy also. I don't resent paying taxes, I pay all my bills, that's my obligation. Every hard working person SHOULD resent having to keep up the lazy-poor and members of the elite class who have acquired their status through pure luck, inheritance, corruption, or outright theft. Now if you don't fall into one of those categories, then I have no issue with you.
    my father was top of his class at the best prep school in New England and voted the student with the most promise by the masters. My mother was top of her class at a day school in town. Dad was sent to a local college for officer's training and then graduated near the top of his class at Yale. He also was all american in soccer. He was not eligible for Phi Beta Kappa since he had two years at another school but his last two years ranked him top 20 in his class. My mother was summa cum laude at an equally prestigious women's college-then the top of the "seven sisters". My brothers and I all were accepted into Yale but we each also applied to equivalent schools. I was accepted at Amherst (no family connections whatsoever), one brother was accepted into Harvard (he was a top athlete in a sport Ivies recruit for-he came to Yale because he was the #1 recruit while Harvard had the two boys in the USA ranked ahead of him) and my other brother was accepted into Columbia.

    we all could have sat back and been screw offs assuming my dad, who was the golden gloves finalist, didn't beat the crap out of us-which he would have. So yeah, I grew up rich but we all achieved rather well



  2. #172
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you labor under the delusion that estate taxes actually transfer stuff to the middle class? LOL-and you claim to be a conservative.

    do you think top athletes or models have an advantage because they were born with talent Of course. I played on the junior tennis circuit and I am the same age as John McEnroe. I guarantee you there were at least 50 boys our age who practiced as hard as John did. I doubt you have ever heard of any of them. One boy had more talent-he had a mental breakdown and was institutionalized. his name was Schoenfeld (sp) from MIchigan. He had a flaw that wasn't his fault.

    anyone who argues the government has the right to forcibly confiscate wealth for social engineering is no conservative no matter how you define it. I earn money, I pay tons of taxes on it and its my right to do what I want with it and if that means putting it up my nose drinking it down, spending it on lavish parties, or investing every cent I don't need for my son that's my business and a real conservative would support that.

    you obviously don't know alot of rich people. Some are screw offs and playboys. Some use the wealth to be able to do stuff they couldn't do -like being a public defender with a law review position from Harvard rather than working for some big bucks wall street firm.

    The headmaster at my prep school was top of his class at Williams and then harvard. He was the heir to a huge fortune. He worked at the school for 40 years not taking a dime in salary but rather using it to pay the tuition of poor kids who had merit but no money. he could do that because of his inheritance. Whine all you want-but his inheritance was used for far more good than a greedy bunch of dem politicians taking it to buy the votes of people who ooze envy and hate those who were "lucky"
    I don't disagree with a lot of what you just said.

    You obviously are missing how an inheritance tax could (and does) redistribute wealth. Every dollar that is taxed through our inheritance tax is a dollar that doesnt have to be taxed on income. If our government was small enough to operate just off of inheritance tax, we could all keep every dollar we made because income tax could be eleminated. Thus, by elemenating taxes that would otherwise have to pay, we have redistributed wealth, and in a manner that is far less harmful to our economic system than any other, and in a manner that does not seize income from those who earned it.

    Your example about someone making $200,000/yr is not the type of person I am ranting about when I rant about the rich. Someone else suggested the type of person that I am ranting about. Her, the Kennedy clan, etc.

  3. #173
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I don't disagree with a lot of what you just said.

    You obviously are missing how an inheritance tax could (and does) redistribute wealth. Every dollar that is taxed through our inheritance tax is a dollar that doesnt have to be taxed on income. If our government was small enough to operate just off of inheritance tax, we could all keep every dollar we made because income tax could be eleminated. Thus, by elemenating taxes that would otherwise have to pay, we have redistributed wealth, and in a manner that is far less harmful to our economic system than any other, and in a manner that does not seize income from those who earned it.

    Your example about someone making $200,000/yr is not the type of person I am ranting about when I rant about the rich. Someone else suggested the type of person that I am ranting about. Her, the Kennedy clan, etc.
    any tax that only a few pay will be voted up so that others won't have to pay alternative taxes.

    I don't like governments having the power to use the wealth of a few to buy the votes of the many. and in the long run, the many suffer when the few leave



  4. #174
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    my father was top of his class at the best prep school in New England and voted the student with the most promise by the masters. My mother was top of her class at a day school in town. Dad was sent to a local college for officer's training and then graduated near the top of his class at Yale. He also was all american in soccer. He was not eligible for Phi Beta Kappa since he had two years at another school but his last two years ranked him top 20 in his class. My mother was summa cum laude at an equally prestigious women's college-then the top of the "seven sisters". My brothers and I all were accepted into Yale but we each also applied to equivalent schools. I was accepted at Amherst (no family connections whatsoever), one brother was accepted into Harvard (he was a top athlete in a sport Ivies recruit for-he came to Yale because he was the #1 recruit while Harvard had the two boys in the USA ranked ahead of him) and my other brother was accepted into Columbia.

    we all could have sat back and been screw offs assuming my dad, who was the golden gloves finalist, didn't beat the crap out of us-which he would have. So yeah, I grew up rich but we all achieved rather well
    Nice story. At least it is nice to see that you have a sense of humour. My dad was a boxer in the Air Force so I can relate to that part.

  5. #175
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Nice story. At least it is nice to see that you have a sense of humour. My dad was a boxer in the Air Force so I can relate to that part.
    if you would care to agree to a 10,000 dollar donation to this forum for me to prove I am truthful I will be happy to supply Captain C with the necessary information.

    If you aren't willing to do that, then you are a gutless liar as well as being envious



  6. #176
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    where did he bugger off to?

    at least he changed his lean from conservative to "independent"



  7. #177
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if you would care to agree to a 10,000 dollar donation to this forum for me to prove I am truthful I will be happy to supply Captain C with the necessary information.

    If you aren't willing to do that, then you are a gutless liar as well as being envious

    Not making a particular 10,000 dollar donation has nothing to do with someone being invious or a gutless lier. No, I have to earn my money, I am not the one that was born rich. If you can afford it, go ahead, make the donation. Personally, I cant, and I quite honestly have better charities to donate to (my wife is the president of a 501C charity).

    And my "lean" as reported on this forum has been Independent since I joined. I have changed nothing.

    Do you happen to be the author of that book: "How to Alienenate People"?
    Last edited by imagep; 07-14-10 at 10:05 AM.

  8. #178
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep
    At this particular time, reducing spending would put us into a double dip recession (depression).

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post



    Please to explain.




    I guess after asking now for a third time your non answer can be seen as a clear concession that you were talking out of the southern orifice?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #179
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Taking money away from middle class families certainly won't do that, but making it easier and easier for the wealthy to get a larger and larger slice of the pie does make it more difficult on middle class families.
    Well taxes are going up for the middle class. so your point even though dubious in nature, is moot.



    At any one given point in time, there is only so much wealth, so wealth distributation is a zero sum game.
    Back this up please.


    When our society makes it easier for the already wealthy to obtain a larger percentage of our our wealth, by default the non-wealthy each get a smaller slice of that pie.

    Nonsense.




    While it is very true that our society has become richer over time, it is also true that the extremely rich have became disproportionately wealthier and that the middle class has not shared in the increased wealth at the same rate the wealthy have.

    Elitest will point to statistics that show how our middle class has done very well since the late 1940's, and those figures may be entirely accurate, but that higher standard of living, the two cars in every driveway, the air conditioning, the meals out, the factory made clothing - all came at a price. The price of soaring household debt and the addition of second income per family.

    So wait, this contadicts what you said before, if people like me are taking your pie away, how is it you have a better quality of life including higher incomes?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #180
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So wait, this contadicts what you said before, if people like me are taking your pie away, how is it you have a better quality of life including higher incomes?

    I have already explained that: two incomes.

    If you don't like my answers or can prove them to be incorrect, then fine. Otherwise, dont pretend that I have not already explained my answers just because you dont agree with them.

    Looks like a couple of you guys woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

    38,000 post in less than 3 years? About 35 every single day. Jeeshch, you really need to get a job.

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