View Poll Results: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, the democrats need more money to spend

    20 40.82%
  • No, I want to keep my own money

    29 59.18%
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Thread: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

  1. #121
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    You seem to subscribe to this notion that people pay 50% of their income in taxes. Its hard to blame you for that as it is a common understanding, but I assure you its a myth.

    People that come to this conclusion want to add all of the highest rates of all the taxes on pays together in one lump sum and say "see, its 50%".... hence a myth is born. Unfortunately far too many people believe this myth.

    This math suffers from many flaws in logic. The fact is that taxes kick in and kick out in ways that some just affect lower portions of your income and give way as higher income tax rates kick in on higher portions of your income, so they are never taxing the same dollar at the same time.

    The fact of the matter is, the highest of amount of income that is likely to be taxed annually in almost all circumstances is about 35-37%.... The reason the idea of adding one tax on top of another does not work is that taxes kick and fall off at different levels. For example, those at the highest tax bracket are not taxed on FICA and the same time they are taxed at the highest bracket as FICA disappears at 110,000 of income and the highest brackets kick in at 357,000 so you would never add FICA and the highest bracket together. Due to deductions, exemptions and credits, 20% of your income just is not taxed. The early dollars of your income are taxed a 15%, then 28%, then 33%.. State income taxes exist, but they are deductible for federal purposes, so a 10% state income tax in the 33% bracket is really a 7% income tax. Then there are sales taxes, but here only the lowest incomes have significant percentage of their income go out in sales taxes. The highest incomes do not spend as high a percentage of their monies on consumables and thus sales taxes are an annoyance, at best. An 8% sales tax is not 8% on your tax bill. Property taxes are a function of your house. Although the wealthy have more expensive homes and higher property taxes, these tend to be a much lower percent of a wealthy persons income than a middle class person. I have run these numbers for multiple income scenarios on a spreadsheet to prove this point have a heated cocktail hour discussion....

    So, stand down on this notion that you pay 50% of your income in taxes: not true.

    As to the 2nd part of the notion that an estate would pay 50% tax at its creation then 50% at probate... again a misleading oversimplification. First off, if the estate were created with earned income (very, very unlikely) it was not taxed at 50% per reasons stated above. I really doubt too many people build an estate out of earned income (ballplayers and entertainers, maybe). More likely, the estate was created via capital gain (someone build a business and sold it), so most of the estate was likely taxed at 15-25%.

    The issue of disposition of estate: It is not a 50% across the board tax. It has allowances, deductions, credits and exemptions. Most noteworthy, the first $1 million is not taxed. Granted, estate taxes are steep.

    Given that we have to raise revenues and we have to tax, it seems that taxing estates (an event that moves assets from the creator to a member of the lucky womb society) seems one of the most equitable places to tax. It really makes little sense to concentrate capital in the hands of those who had part in its creation and likely have no clue how to use the assets productively. I would much rather tax estates than income or consumption... but that is me.
    You seem to forget the many taxes that folks pay, including taxes on taxed income. It may not amount to as much as 50%, but what percentage is too much. Well, in my opinion, when the government is spending money on things it shouldn't, things that are clearly unconstitutional....then the percentage is too high. No politician(s) yet has done what really needs to be done, and that is delete programs and government departments in their entirety, and truly reduce the size and scope of the federal government. And ultimately the size of the budget need.
    Last edited by American; 07-10-10 at 01:42 PM.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The Obama has decided that all of the usual liberal rhetoric about GWB's tax cuts beng just for the rich is just aother lie from the partisan bigots, and has decided to leave in place all of the tax cuts for those making less than 200/250k per year because they will provide relief to the middle and working class families that need it.


    The upper class has grown and the lower class has remained stagnant.
    How is that bad?
    The upper class hasn't grown. In the decades following Reagan, the top 1% control more of the wealth in this country. That is exactly why the Reagan era saw the destruction of single income homes. It is now a reality that both parents have to work which is why the whole "family values" BS is such a joke. the GOP, Reagan in particular have done more to destroy the family unit than so called "liberals" ever will.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #123
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You seem to forget the many taxes that folks pay, including taxes on taxed income. It may not amount to as much as 50%, but what percentage is too much. Well, in my opinion, when the government is spending money on things it shouldn't, things that are clearly unconstitutional....then the percentage is too high. No politician(s) yet has done what really needs to be done, and that is delete programs and government departments in their entirety, and truly reduce the size and scope of the federal government. And ultimately the size of the budget need.
    Trying to control spending by adjusting taxation is insane. All that does is increase our debt. That notion is what got us into this mess. It's the reason Republicans run so much higher deficits on average. If you want to cut spending, cut spending, don't cut taxes and just hope it will all work itself out somehow.

    The average federal tax burden is just 17%. The average overall tax burden between state, local, and federal is 26%.

  4. #124
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    This is a common statement by Republicans, but in fact, there are quite a few fiscally conservatives in congress..
    I fixed your quote for you.

    There are plenty of Republicans who say they are fiscal conservatives, such as both House and Senate minority leaders. Except when we look at their stances during the all Republican spending years, they didn't have a problem blowing the bank. Not to mention systematically kicking out all of the actual fiscally conservative republicans left.

    Republicans pretend they hold different beliefs from Democrats.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #125
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Trying to control spending by adjusting taxation is insane. All that does is increase our debt. That notion is what got us into this mess. It's the reason Republicans run so much higher deficits on average. If you want to cut spending, cut spending, don't cut taxes and just hope it will all work itself out somehow.

    The average federal tax burden is just 17%. The average overall tax burden between state, local, and federal is 26%.
    what is insane is a system where most of those who want more public spending don't have to pay any more taxes when spending is increased.

    the average tax burden of federal income taxes for almost half the voters is ZERO

    my tax burden with state (8% in Ohio-wonder why Lebron James moved to florida and its ZERO income tax) and federal income tax will be almost 50% when the dem tax hikes hit next year. throw in property tax, sales tax and its over 50%



  6. #126
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what is insane is a system where most of those who want more public spending don't have to pay any more taxes when spending is increased.
    How do you figure? The majority of people who made over $200k voted for Obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    my tax burden with state (8% in Ohio-wonder why Lebron James moved to florida and its ZERO income tax) and federal income tax will be almost 50% when the dem tax hikes hit next year
    No way. Even if you made half a million dollars, all in wages, you would only be paying 30% federal income taxes.

  7. #127
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    How do you figure? The majority of people who made over $200k voted for Obama.



    No way. Even if you made half a million dollars, all in wages, you would only be paying 30% federal income taxes.
    lots of people are rich because of the government
    that was an aberation as well-it wasn't the case in the last 10 elections before that-I would bet big bucks they don't in 2012

    I guess you weren't smart enough to note that I was counting all taxes not just federal income taxes



  8. #128
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Teamosil, you do realize that Turtledude doesn't address posts no?

    You said this "If you want to cut spending, cut spending, don't cut taxes and just hope it will all work itself out somehow." Which was the meat of your post. Did he address it at all? No.

    He's also pretending that only income tax exists. I guess FICA doesn't exist to him. Maybe he doesn't realize that the two largest items in the budget are heavily funded by non-income tax items?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #129
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    lots of people are rich because of the government
    Indeed. All of them are in part rich because of the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess you weren't smart enough to note that I was counting all taxes not just federal income taxes
    No, you said federal income + state income was "almost 50%", and that it was over counting all taxes. That isn't true either, but I was addressing your first claim:

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    my tax burden with state (8% in Ohio-wonder why Lebron James moved to florida and its ZERO income tax) and federal income tax will be almost 50% when the dem tax hikes hit next year. throw in property tax, sales tax and its over 50%

  10. #130
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Teamosil, you do realize that Turtledude doesn't address posts no?

    You said this "If you want to cut spending, cut spending, don't cut taxes and just hope it will all work itself out somehow." Which was the meat of your post. Did he address it at all? No.

    He's also pretending that only income tax exists. I guess FICA doesn't exist to him. Maybe he doesn't realize that the two largest items in the budget are heavily funded by non-income tax items?
    remind me again what the topic of this thread is? BUSH's INCOME tax cuts. that is the topic. NOt FICA but the fact that dems want taxes to go up-INCOME taxes

    income taxes are the taxes congress uses to grab power-by buying the votes of people like you by taking the wealth of people like me



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