View Poll Results: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

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  • yes, the democrats need more money to spend

    20 40.82%
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Thread: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    From that article

    so - Since my husband makes far less than $250,000 - this won't affect me us at all . . . nor many others . . . and I fail to see the issue.
    Well, I hope you're one never to call those who don't want taxes "Greedy" since you're entire reasoning is "It won't affect me at all so I see no issue with it".

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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You're not following... In both cases, the government has the $10 million. They want to give it to some dude. They can either give it to him with a tax cut or with a check...

    Here, let me simplify it. Say that they want to give Joe Smith $10 million. They cut a check to his name. That's a handout in your book, right? Now say they write "tax refund" in the memo field. Then that's no longer a handout in your book, right? How does that make sense?

    As for you question about does the money belong to the government... That's just empty rhetoric with no substance behind it... Does the money you spend on groceries "belong" to the grocer? What is the sound of one hand clapping? Does the water in the river belong in the ocean or in the cloud?
    that is beyond silly.



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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    This is a common statement by Republicans, but in fact, there are quite a few fiscally conservative democrats in congress. One of them is mine. And, I'd have a little more respect for this perspective if the Republicans hadn't been subsidizing corporate America's welfare needs for the past 30 years.
    corporate welfare can mean alot of things

    it can mean the mayor and council of a city offering a would be factory building business tax breaks so they choose that mayor's town rather than another for their new production facility. A tax break is nothing more than a quid pro quo to lure an entity that the politicians think will help the local economy such as diner owners who will have new factory workers to sell to etc.

    In some cases it was like bailing out Chrysler so all those union workers wouldn't go on unemployment.

    companies provide useful services and in many cases are in good bargaining positions. More companies means more jobs, more taxes, more jobs and more taxes from other operations that cater to that company. MOre companies almost always means more prosperity for those areas that have them.

    expanding corporations doesn't hurt America

    expanding the dependent class of welfare recipients hurts america but helps those who pander to them get elected.

    Most of those most hurt by a company failing are those who work there because normally there are far more workers than owners and if its a company like GM-the stockholders are often Union pensions as major players



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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, I hope you're one never to call those who don't want taxes "Greedy" since you're entire reasoning is "It won't affect me at all so I see no issue with it".
    that is the thinking that the left has banked on

    At first the dems only targeted those who made ten million a year for confiscatory taxes and we didn't object because none of use made ten million a year

    then they expanded their confiscatory taxes to those who made 5 million a year and we didn't object because we wished we made that much

    then they decided a million a year was worthy of looting but again, how many people make that much

    by the time the dems scheme started calling us rich, too many people were addicted to the dem class warfare we were unable to avoid being soaked



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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, I hope you're one never to call those who don't want taxes "Greedy" since you're entire reasoning is "It won't affect me at all so I see no issue with it".
    I'm not going to give Bush a free pass: he put these cuts in place KNOWING they'd expire after he left office.

    I'm not going to place fault and problem solely ON the Obama administration over what the BUSH administration/Congress decided to *do*

    Nor am I giving businesses a pass when they've known for YEARS that these cuts *will end* and that they *were temporary*

    Yes- it will have a horrible trickle down effect, I'm sure the cost of items will go up - businesses won't be able to adjust and they'll stiff the customers.

    But you know what - the cuts should NEVER have been made to begin with. Wht are they SUPPOSE to do - keep it going FOREVER! It happened before I was even old enough to vote - but looking back I wholeheartedly DISAGREE with the cuts being put into swing in the FIRST ****ing place.

    I do feel that the approach should be slow - so it's not a jarring SMACK all of a sudden, though. But maybe that's how they'll handle it? Right now they're just discussing "let it end or not" - they haven't put the process into writing or proposed if it will be done in steps - or anything at all of that nature, yet so we have no solid details to go into - all we have is 'end or no end' right now to debate.
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    they helped those of us who pay taxes

    of course socialists don't believe in individual rights so I can understand why you don't care. People like you would confiscate all wealth over a certain limit if you thought it would advance the power of your masters.
    I'm offended by those who keep throwing out this same BS! You lump those who disagree with your rational for fairness and equality (in this case on taxes) and think we're unpatriotic or that we hate capticalism and the free market system. We'll we don't!

    I believe in capticalism. I believe that every man, woman and child has every right to go out into this world and if he works hard enough or gets lucky and either earns his keep or falls into a cash cow he or she deserves to reap the benefits of his wealth and prosperity. What I DON'T agree with is imposing taxes on those who can't afford them and giving large tax breaks to those who really don't need them.

    The Conservative rational on tax cuts has always been that they create jobs. We'll, where they hell are the jobs from the Bush tax cuts? And if they are suppose to work so well to stimulate the economy, why did this country fall into a Recession? And if fiscal conservatism is such a big concern for the Right, why didn't they uphold their side in being responsible stewarts of the People's money and ensure that both wars (War in Iraq and in Afghanstan) were paid for?

    SEVEN YEARS of tax cuts to those making +$300K/annually and what does this nation have to show for it?

    Answer = A National/Global Recession

    Now, I could understand if these tax cuts were for major corporations, but they aren't. They're for wealthy individuals. So, unless these people are puring their money back into their businesses instead of paying for their multi-million dollar homes, expensive cars or private jets, I fail to see how giving weathy individuals a tax break when such hasn't done a thing to spur the economy! The logic being used just doesn't appear to be very sound to me, and the evidence is all around us.

    Businesses have closed.
    People remain unemployed.
    States are broke!
    U.S. companies are still looking for ways to ship their business overseas taking much needed jobs with them.

    Until you can show me that the Bush tax cuts will begin to work and VERY SOON, I see no reason to continue them.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-09-10 at 11:28 AM.

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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm not going to give Bush a free pass: he put these cuts in place KNOWING they'd expire after he left office.

    I'm not going to place fault and problem solely ON the Obama administration over what the BUSH administration/Congress decided to *do*

    Nor am I giving businesses a pass when they've known for YEARS that these cuts *will end* and that they *were temporary*

    Yes- it will have a horrible trickle down effect, I'm sure the cost of items will go up - businesses won't be able to adjust and they'll stiff the customers.

    But you know what - the cuts should NEVER have been made to begin with. Wht are they SUPPOSE to do - keep it going FOREVER! It happened before I was even old enough to vote - but looking back I wholeheartedly DISAGREE with the cuts being put into swing in the FIRST ****ing place.

    I do feel that the approach should be slow - so it's not a jarring SMACK all of a sudden, though. But maybe that's how they'll handle it? Right now they're just discussing "let it end or not" - they haven't put the process into writing or proposed if it will be done in steps - or anything at all of that nature, yet so we have no solid details to go into - all we have is 'end or no end' right now to debate.
    I see a lot of bitching and rationalizing but when it comes down to it I just keep going back to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    so - Since my husband makes far less than $250,000 - this won't affect me us at all . . . nor many others . . . and I fail to see the issue.
    And you know something, nothing wrong with that. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously if later on you start talking about how anyone against tax increases are "greedy".

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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I see a lot of bitching and rationalizing but when it comes down to it I just keep going back to:



    And you know something, nothing wrong with that. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously if later on you start talking about how anyone against tax increases are "greedy".
    In this entire thread there's been nothing that details out how it will affect people . . . so, pray tell, how will it affect us?
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magill View Post
    We had a tax hike on businesses (that make over 250,000) in Oregon and we are doing fine. Nike is still here. Columbia sportswear is still here. (Just a few of those who fought 66&67) and IBM announced it is bringing 600 more jobs to Oregon.

    Most of the big businesses that could take jobs away, do on a regular basis anyway because they can get cheap labor overseas. No amount of tax cuts is going to make up for the fact that the American worker needs to make over 50 cents an hour.


    is that net or gross? You do realize most pizza shops fall in this category. /facepalm
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    Re: Should the Bush tax cuts be cancelled next year as Obama wants to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you think a million dollar estae is mega wealthy? Dismissed as someone who has no clue about reality.

    anyone who makes 75K a year and saves is gonna have a million dollar estate if they live to 75 and don't have bad investments or some really bad luck. the average GS 12 or 13 will die with a million dollar estate. many people who bought 150K homes in the 80s may well be millionaires now if they bought in the right places.

    a tax cut is not the same as a handout. For more than half of our country's history no one paid income taxes and until the FDR administration, no one paid much of their income in taxes. ONly a person who believes all wealth belongs to the government can confuse a handout with a tax cut.

    your logic is the same as saying that a robber who leaves half of your wallet's contents has given you that money.

    do you believe that all wealth belongs to the government?
    Let's not get twisted off into irrelevance. I do agree that $1M is not uber wealthy. In fact, it isn't all that much money. That said, the estate tax kicks in at $2M so the $1M is irrelevant. ...and that said, the issue is about the elimination of the estate tax most benefits the UBER wealthy. That statement is true. 85% of the wealth in this country is held by 20% of the people (and 35% by 1% of the people). Elimination of the estate tax most benefits the 1% of the population. This should not be a discussion about where the estate tax kicks in ($1M or $10M) but rather the value of an estate tax. The government should be after mega-estates, not families that have managed their financial affairs well.

    IMHO, the absence of the estate tax grossly benefits a very small number of people, continues to bifurcate our society along economic lines (which will not have good long-term ramifications for its stability) and concentrates capital in the hands of those that did not earn it (non-productive members of our society... daddy funded welfare). The notion of that capital should be earned and not given (clearing the chips and returning people to go with $200) has some value to our society. Adjusting the minimum estate value subject to the tax is easy... raising the minimum from $2 to $5 or $10 million is not the same as eliminating estate tax.

    This was a bad move by the Bush Administration (number 45 of the top 100 Bush blunders), at least for America. I am sure I got a few dinners paid for by some of his Texas oil buddies, especially those that died in 2010, but this did nothing for our economy except cut off tax revenues. Fortunately this bad idea terminates on its own.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-09-10 at 12:07 PM.

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