View Poll Results: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

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Thread: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

  1. #61
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Seems like we have different definitions of "radical". The very definition, in my mind, includes illegal activity.
    well what makes the radical, in your definition, can they be radical without carrying out illegal activity?

    to me, a radical is a person that believes their ideology supersedes all others, and wish to see it spread, and also as a form of governance, and wish to force other people to subject to it, whether they carry out their ideas as actions is irrelevant.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    Lets look at the definition:

    –adjective
    1. of or going to the root or origin; fundamental: a radical difference.
    2. thoroughgoing or extreme, esp. as regards change from accepted or traditional forms: a radical change in the policy of a company.
    3. favoring drastic political, economic, or social reforms: radical ideas; radical and anarchistic ideologues.
    4. forming a basis or foundation.
    5. existing inherently in a thing or person: radical defects of character.
    6. Mathematics .
    a. pertaining to or forming a root.
    b. denoting or pertaining to the radical sign.
    c. irrational ( def. 5b ) .
    7. Grammar . of or pertaining to a root.
    8. Botany . of or arising from the root or the base of the stem.
    –noun
    9. a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist.
    10. a person who advocates fundamental political, economic, and social reforms by direct and often uncompromising methods.


    Well it looks like far more than just religion constitutes what is and is not radical.

    Funny how that is.

    So we have anyone who is far right or left politically is a radical. Anyone who is or is not a traditionalist is a radical. SO basically anyone who has an extreme view of anything is a radical.

    So we can add atheists and agnostics into the mix along with everyone else.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 07-08-10 at 01:03 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    9. a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist.
    10. a person who advocates fundamental political, economic, and social reforms by direct and often uncompromising methods.[/b]
    they be more or less my definition

    Well it looks like far more than just religion constitutes what is and is not radical.

    Funny how that is.

    So we have anyone who is far right or left politically is a radical. Anyone who is or is not a traditionalist is a radical. SO basically anyone who has an extreme view of anything is a radical.

    So we can add atheists and agnostics into the mix along with everyone else.
    i thought that was self explanatory really, anyone can be a radical with almost any ideology.
    So follow me into the desert
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  4. #64
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i thought that was self explanatory really, anyone can be a radical with almost any ideology.
    I know that Spud. It is just that far FAR too many here seem to think religion is responsible for all the worlds ills and take any opportunity to bash it. Predominantly with Muslims and Christians.

    So I wanted to be clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #65
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    no, but neither can a radical Christian nor a Mormon.
    I don't see Christians or Mormons as suicide bombers...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  6. #66
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    A better question is can a radical be a good American?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #67
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i didn't realise you had to have a set of specific beliefs to be a good american. a radical muslim could be a good american, as long as they obey the law.
    If that's your definition of "good", to simply obey the law, then I agree with you.
    However I think there is more meaning behind the word "good", and if one is to be labeled a "good American" he needs to be a good person.
    A radical Muslim in my mind is a person who believes in radical Islamic beliefs such as the Ummah and the global Jihad against the infidels, etc.
    That ain't no good.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  8. #68
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    The question is badly defined and lacks context. So, I will interpret it this way. Good citizen = following the laws of a country and a general belief that the mainstream culture of the country is good or at least not bad and therefore has some motivation to take part in it. Radical = person who primarily follows the laws of the ideal or belief they espouse over the environment they find themselves in day to day.

    A lot of Islam's rules are not compatible with American society when followed closely and a radical will follow the rules of their cause closely (or what they perceive the rules to be). Since the two are fundamentally incompatible (for example Sharia law of Islam vs secular enlightenment principals of the US) than a person is going to eventually have to choose which one will be their primary cause (unless they simply do not think about it, but then they are not radicals). The assumption here is since the person in question is a radical, they have or will choose Islamic ideals over western ones (defined as mostly based on secular enlightenment ideals of late 1700s France and US) they will not be able to be a good citizen because of natural tension between the two sets of principals.

    Ultimately, the radical will find a way to surround themselves with what they think is the best way, whether that means surround themselves with friends of the same persuasion, go to another country, or alter their surroundings in some other manner. If they fail to do that, they will either become unhappy or act out (God forbid). However, ultimately, I think this is based on the tension between the two sets of principals more than it is the radicalism itself.

    Please note that a radical Amish person will probably not have these same tensions because the Amish tradition is recognized (if gawked at) as a part of the country, which makes it easier for those people to fit in. This is probably also true with many Christian sects, even though some are at odds with the country as it currently is.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 07-08-10 at 09:14 AM. Reason: grammar

  9. #69
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    As an American radical I must vote YES. Not all ideologues carry out evil, wicked, mean, and nasty events. Some of us are simply here to balance out the reactionaries. Radical is generally thought of as a political bent. IOW I can be a political radical and a good Christian at the same time. It's only used to describe religion with the Muslims because they mix their religion and politics. We don't have radical Christians. We have Evangelical Christians.

    So, can a few radical minded Muslims obey the laws of the USA (I'm assuming we're talking about citizens here)? Sure. We have plenty of these individuals in our country already.

  10. #70
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    Re: Can a radical Muslim be a good American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Seems like we have different definitions of "radical". The very definition, in my mind, includes illegal activity.
    Using that definition, you don't need to include anything past the word "radical". If being radical means taking part in illegal activity, then being radical means you cannot be a good American. So why add "Muslim" after that?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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