View Poll Results: Does man have a soul?

Voters
60. You may not vote on this poll
  • Atheist/Agnostic and yes, he does

    3 5.00%
  • Atheist/Agnostic and no, he does not

    27 45.00%
  • Other belief system and yes he does

    14 23.33%
  • Other belief system and no, he does not

    2 3.33%
  • BTSOOM/FIIK (beats the **** out of me/fvck if I know)

    10 16.67%
  • Cake or death?

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

  1. #61
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    False. Something does not exist if it has not been seen, heard, touched, or analyzed by science.
    Non sequitor much? This statement has nothing to do with my comment, absolutely **** all.

    That is the way scientific methodology works.
    I didn't say that something does not exist because it has not been analyzed yet, furthermore, the very fact that the natives have seen it and have used it means that it has in fact been analyzed, IE science has discovered it. Something does not exist if it can NOT be analyzed.

    So those plants actually do not exist for this reason, even though natives have knowledgeable use of them.
    WTF are you talking about? The natives have knowledgeable use for them, means that science has discovered it.

    In fact, the very way western medical science works is that is not considered to have curative properties UNLESS it has been proven with research. Even if hundreds of natives come forth and say they have folk uses, western medicine would never use those plants because science hasn't verified anything.
    Science - Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is, in its broadest sense, any systematic knowledge-base or prescriptive practice that is capable of resulting in a correct prediction, or reliably-predictable type of outcome.

    Knowledge and use of these plants means that science has discovered it.

    It's not that the invisible heatless fire breathing dragon that lives in my garage hasn't been discovered yet it is that it can NEVER be discovered because the statement that it exists lacks any and all falsifiability the same as your claim that there is a soul.

    Then they are as good as, according to scientific methodology. This is why science is not universally practical or useful.

    Science is universally practical and useful, positive assertions that lack falsifiability are never practical or useful.

    It is highly dismissive of things that it has not yet analyzed, and then makes existential assertions about the nature of reality. It relies strictly on deductive reasoning, when inductive reasoning offers much more practical, realistic uses.
    Wow, inductive reasoning is used all of the time in science for example to formulate a hypothesis.

    There is plenty of research ongoing into near death experiences in relation to out of body experiences. You cannot claim there is no work being undertaken. Rather, it is simply you who have done no research and thus are assuming there is none.

    There is plenty of anecdotal evidence and preliminary research to indicate that consciousness can be separate from the physical body, even in death. Now, we cannot conclude that the philosophical term "soul" applies here, but there is definitely something within nature happening that we do not yet fully understand.
    There is plenty of actual scientific research which proves that near death experiences result from a massive release of dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland along with various other neurochemical and psychological reasons.


    Reductio ad absurdum.
    Please do explain how pointing out your classic appeal to popularity is in any way a reductio ad absurdum logical fallacy?

    Don't quote the dictionary at me like it means anything. This debate is subjective and you know it.

    I think it's perfectly logical, based on the work that has already been done, that there is at least enough information recorded to start forming the groundwork theories for the existence of a soul. It will probably take science at least 100 years to catch up to natural phenomenon in that department, but the occurrences exist nonetheless. There is plenty of true testimony to demonstrate that something is happening. Only an absurd fool would dismiss it all and call it specious reasoning.
    The claim that there is a soul lacks any amount of falsifiability. That's my entire point, it can't be researched on. There is plenty of valid research into NDE's and it points towards psychological and neorochemical causation not metaphysical causation.

    You're comparing the science of antiquity to now? There is a lot that science knows now that was "supernatural" back then. Plus the whole earth being flat thing. That's the thing about science... it holds everything as impossible until the research is done; in the modern world, it is taken a step further, and research that could change the minds of billions of people is held back for the status quo.
    Science was not used to determine the earth was flat. In fact science determined that the earth was a sphere as far back as Pythagoris. In fact not only was the spherical shape of the earth known to the early Greeks but Eratosthenes actually determined the earths circumference around 240 BC. It was not scientists who came up with the flat earth theory it was theists like you whose holy books told them so.

    Thanks for bringing up General Relativity. Can you please tell me what gravity is?
    The displacement of space caused by mass.

    No one seems to know. We can explain the effects of gravity, but we don't actually know what it is.
    Um, lol you obviously don't even know what General Relativity is, because General Relativity explains exactly what gravity is, that's what the General Relativity Theory does.

    Wow.

    As for quantum physics, it actually can explain the soul through quantum entanglement, as I mentioned earlier. It would explain how consciousness can exist separately from the body.
    I don't even know where to begin. Quantum Mechanics can explain how two objects can exist in the same place at the same time, but I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the existence of a soul.

    Last time I checked there is no such thing. Yet.
    It's being worked on. Saying "god done did it" doesn't work for some of us.


    That line is getting old. Do you have anything new to offer or are you just going to keep putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "la la la"?

    You are entitled to your beliefs but know that they are just that, beliefs.
    I don't have beliefs I have evidence, you have faith you have beliefs.

    You cannot concretely disprove the existence of the soul anymore than I can concretely prove its existence to you using your preferred system, which is science. I find it funny that you can wave your finger of logic at me yet you ignore an entire world of research that is ongoing into the realm of OBEs.
    I'm not ignoring anything except pseudoscience. There are working scientific hypothesis to explain NDEs and OBEs none of which point to the existence of a soul.

    But by all means, keep trying to take the high road. I think you need to feel victorious more than I do.
    VICTORY IS MINE!!!! KTHXBAI

  2. #62
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    There seems to be this popular thought that the existence of a soul is unsupported by the data. I believe this thought to be in error.

    I remember where I was on September 11, 2001. This was more than seven years ago. This means that I have not one molecule shared between my current body and the one I had then. My hardware has been completely replaced. In order for "me" to exist beyond the expiration of my hardware, suggests the existence of software.

    That which I identify as "me" is clearly not limited to a particular set of particles, but rather to a pattern of thought which can run on this new brain just as well as it did on the old one.

    Now y'all can make up a new term for this intangible sense of self which can be empirically demonstrated to transcend the material, but the word "soul" already aptly describes such a phenomenon regardless of whether you may dislike its spiritual connotation or not.
    I don't think it's just a "spiritual connotation." The whole concept of a soul (at least as it is colloquially used) *IS* spiritual/supernatural. You seem to be using it in a very materialistic way, which is confusing. I don't think we actually disagree on any points here. I agree that our thoughts are the result of our neural patterns, not the individual molecules in our brains...I just have no idea why you would call that a "soul."
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-06-10 at 10:12 PM.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    EDIT POST 61:

    "I don't even know where to begin. Quantum Mechanics can explain how one object can exist in two places at the same time, but I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the existence of a soul."

    Derp.

    Oh and I KILLED SHRODINGERS CAT MYSELF!!! HE'S ****ING DEAD! HA!
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-06-10 at 10:29 PM.

  4. #64
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't think it's just a "spiritual connotation." The whole concept of a soul (at least as it is colloquially used) *IS* spiritual/supernatural. You seem to be using it in a very materialistic way, which is confusing. I don't think we actually disagree on any points here. I agree that our thoughts are the result of our neural patterns, not the individual molecules in our brains...I just have no idea why you would call that a "soul."
    Why wouldn't I call it a soul? What would you call the immaterial essence of yourself? I think "soul" pretty much has it covered.

  5. #65
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    If you are a soul, and if there is no scientific evidence that souls exist, does that mean that there is no scientific evidence that you exist?

    Come to think of it, if you are a body, what is the scientific evidence that you exist? To me, you're just a collection of light and sound waves detected by my senses.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    I see no evidence of the spiritual so I see no soul.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  7. #67
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    I see no evidence of the spiritual so I see no soul.
    We didn't have evidence of sea creatures found on the latest expedition to the South Pole. Does that mean they didn't exist until we found them?
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  8. #68
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    We didn't have evidence of sea creatures found on the latest expedition to the South Pole. Does that mean they didn't exist until we found them?
    To make this simple; if empirical evidence of a soul is found then I will change my mind.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    We didn't have evidence of sea creatures found on the latest expedition to the South Pole. Does that mean they didn't exist until we found them?
    The difference is that stating that sea creatures exist at the South Pole is not an unfalsifiable statement.

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    Re: Atheists/Agnostics/Other: Does man have a soul

    Oh, we're in total agreement. But my point was finding out if agnostics or atheists believe the soul exists. Apparently even if they do, they believe it is attached to the brain, not the heart.

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    If you are suggesting that having a soul is solely a human attribute, then I would have to disagree with you.
    It is my belief that all living creatures have a soul.

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