View Poll Results: is access to the internet a fundamental right?

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Thread: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

  1. #61
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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    A few months ago, Obama launched an initiative (I forget the name) to give all Americans access to broadband by 2020. While that seems like a ridiculously long time to me, I'm glad we are at least recognizing universal broadband as a worthy goal.
    Nothing wrong with broadband.

    Everyone who wants it and can afford to pay for it should be able to get it. Of course, if they live forty miles out of town that means they'll need to pay more for it than someone living in town, but their lifestyles choices aren't someone else's bill to pay, right?

    And if they can't afford broadband, then they need to focus on getting a better paying job, which, again, isn't a problem anyone else has to be concerned with.

    It's that simple.

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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Nothing wrong with broadband.

    Everyone who wants it and can afford to pay for it should be able to get it. Of course, if they live forty miles out of town that means they'll need to pay more for it than someone living in town, but their lifestyles choices aren't someone else's bill to pay, right?

    And if they can't afford broadband, then they need to focus on getting a better paying job, which, again, isn't a problem anyone else has to be concerned with.

    It's that simple.
    Absolutely. As far as I know, Obama's initiative is only concerned with implementing the infrastructure so that everyone can get broadband, rather than actually providing them with broadband. Sadly, there are still some places in the country where broadband isn't available at ANY price.
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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Fundamental rights are a fluid thing and they evolve and expand. Now I know this does not sit well with certain conservative minded folks, but that is never the less a fact. For example.

    The right to free speech and vote in the US. Today American's take it for granted but it is not long ago that free speech and voting rights were denied to people of colour and before that, 50% of the population (women) and before that was only given too a select few (men of a certain age and stature).

    Hence what has happened in Finland, a very very wired nation, is nothing more than an evolution of fundamental rights.
    By this argument, you would then agree that the right to keep and bear arms is also a fundamental right.
    Correct?

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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    Is it just a general, universal, FUNDAMENTAL right? No

    Is it a Fundamental Right of a particular nation? Perhaps, if they've added that right officially to their law

    Should it be a Fundamental Right? I think of universal Fundamental Rights akin to natural rights, and as such no it shouldn't and really can't be. That said, I do think it should be a fundamental right of any nation whose vast majority of governmental processes are access through the internet. Other than that, I don't see any real reason to make it a "right".

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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Is it just a general, universal, FUNDAMENTAL right? No

    Is it a Fundamental Right of a particular nation? Perhaps, if they've added that right officially to their law

    Should it be a Fundamental Right? I think of universal Fundamental Rights akin to natural rights, and as such no it shouldn't and really can't be. That said, I do think it should be a fundamental right of any nation whose vast majority of governmental processes are access through the internet. Other than that, I don't see any real reason to make it a "right".
    Funny thing about rights... they are freedoms you have that you can exercise without interfering with the rights of anyone else.

    Thus, if someone else has to provide you the means to be able to do someting, then that someting isn't a right fundamental to you as a person or a citizen, its a privilege that you have been granted by the state.

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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Funny thing about rights... they are freedoms you have that you can exercise without interfering with the rights of anyone else.

    Thus, if someone else has to provide you the means to be able to do someting, then that someting isn't a right fundamental to you as a person or a citizen, its a privilege that you have been granted by the state.
    I think that can get shaky, as you have it phrased. You can excersise your rights because we have a legal system. My taxes go to pay for that legal system, so in some way I'm providing for your rights by making sure we have police and a military.
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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    It's a right in this sense: The government needs a damn good reason to take it away from you.

    There was a recent case here in PA where someone on probation who had been accused of sexually abusing a child was told, as part of her probation, that she could not use the internet and get online. She challenged that because it would severely limit her job opportunities and ability to get email and so on. Her lawyer argued that this would be like telling someone they can't use a library or the mail. Since her crime did not involve child pornography at all, the court ruled that such a limitation was improper as it had no relationship to her probation or crime.

    So I'd say it's a "right" only in that the government should not be allowed to limit your access to it.

  8. #68
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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    It's a right in this sense: The government needs a damn good reason to take it away from you.

    There was a recent case here in PA where someone on probation who had been accused of sexually abusing a child was told, as part of her probation, that she could not use the internet and get online. She challenged that because it would severely limit her job opportunities and ability to get email and so on. Her lawyer argued that this would be like telling someone they can't use a library or the mail. Since her crime did not involve child pornography at all, the court ruled that such a limitation was improper as it had no relationship to her probation or crime.

    So I'd say it's a "right" only in that the government should not be allowed to limit your access to it.
    Without reason, that is.

    For example, someone who was convicted of a major crime wherein their internet access played a key role - in such a case, severe restrictions on internet access for them (permanent or not, depending) would seem reasonable.
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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Without reason, that is.

    For example, someone who was convicted of a major crime wherein their internet access played a key role - in such a case, severe restrictions on internet access for them (permanent or not, depending) would seem reasonable.
    Yes, I agree. That's what the court said too. There has to be a reason, you can't just limit access as a punishment.

  10. #70
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    Re: Access to the internet - a fundamental right?

    If it's not a right until the government passes a law and says it is, then what is it when the government passes another law taking it away?
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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