View Poll Results: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

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Thread: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    I've never felt a particularly strong urge to burn any nation's flag.

    I do not think it is morally wrong to burn any nation's flag.

    I do not think flag-burning should be illegal in any way, shape or form provided that the destroyer of the flag owns it as private property and the incineration is handled responsibly.



    That said, some of the characterizations I've read about flag-burners in this thread are making me want to burn a flag right now.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #32
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    I have a question, would it be ok to burn the LGBT flag in protest of gay marriage? Or would that be a hate crime?
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    It absolutely positively should not be considered a hate crime in any way, but it would definitely make you a hopeless bigot.
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    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #34
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It absolutely positively should not be considered a hate crime in any way, but it would definitely make you a hopeless bigot.
    would burning an American flag also make someone a hopeless bigot against America? I think flag burning only exists as a anger inciting form of protest and is classless, but people have the right to do so.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  5. #35
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    would burning an American flag also make someone a hopeless bigot against America? I think flag burning only exists as a anger inciting form of protest and is classless, but people have the right to do so.
    If I were to burn the American flag, it would be because I hate the government, not because I hate the country.


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    Who loves his home, hates his government, and has for some time now.
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    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #36
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    If I were to burn the American flag, it would be because I hate the government, not because I hate the country.


    TED,
    Who loves his home, hates his government, and has for some time now.
    Could burning the LGBT flag mean that someone hates the homosexual movement and not homosexuals themselves? what about burning the Christian flag?

    My point is something we both agree on. We should be able to burn any flag or symbol without it being called hate speech. The whole concept of hate speech in my opinion is very foolish and should be abolished.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  7. #37
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Could burning the LGBT flag mean that someone hates the homosexual movement and not homosexuals themselves? what about burning the Christian flag?
    There is no one organization or authority which can legitimately claim that flag as its symbol. As such, no.

    I wasn't aware there even IS a Christian flag. I think if there were a vatican flag, one could burn it to protest the actions of the Holy See without being a bigot with respect to Christianity or Catholicism in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    My point is something we both agree on. We should be able to burn any flag or symbol without it being called hate speech. The whole concept of hate speech in my opinion is very foolish and should be abolished.
    Yep, with you there.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #38
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Could burning the LGBT flag mean that someone hates the homosexual movement and not homosexuals themselves? what about burning the Christian flag?

    My point is something we both agree on. We should be able to burn any flag or symbol without it being called hate speech. The whole concept of hate speech in my opinion is very foolish and should be abolished.
    Concept of X should be abolished... hmmm ... how do you abolish a concept? Hate Speech: "Speech that has the effect of inciting hatred toward a definable, usually already oppressed, group of people." Well, the fact is, certain speech simply does exactly that. What are you going to do? Abolish the fact that it does that?

    Or are you trying to tell us that we shouldn't be offended when people engage in speech that has the effect of inciting hatred toward definable, usually already oppressed, groups of people? Well, I am perfectly comfortable being offended at this type of speech, and don't mind letting people know it.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Concept of X should be abolished... hmmm ... how do you abolish a concept? Hate Speech: "Speech that has the effect of inciting hatred toward a definable, usually already oppressed, group of people." Well, the fact is, certain speech simply does exactly that. What are you going to do? Abolish the fact that it does that?

    Or are you trying to tell us that we shouldn't be offended when people engage in speech that has the effect of inciting hatred toward definable, usually already oppressed, groups of people? Well, I am perfectly comfortable being offended at this type of speech, and don't mind letting people know it.
    Is it as offensive, in your mind, if it's a minority directing their hatred at a larger group? Say like how atheists often refer to the beliefs of the religious as fairytales and myths born out of ignorance? I think that is pretty hateful. Is that offensive to you?

  10. #40
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    Re: Should burning the US flag in America be illegal?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Is it as offensive, in your mind, if it's a minority directing their hatred at a larger group? Say like how atheists often refer to the beliefs of the religious as fairytales and myths born out of ignorance? I think that is pretty hateful. Is that offensive to you?
    I don't view that to be hate speech. I don't see how it would incite people to hatred of religious people. It might be offensive because in certain contexts it borders on rude. I am not sure that would be the case here, in a forum where what you've described just looks like standard frank discussion, which is what is supposed to happen here. I just don't even think that what you've quoted rises even to the level of incivility here. But, I would be shocked to see someone post it, say, on Facebook.

    But, in general, no, it is not usually as offensive when the less powerful group attacks the more powerful group with hate speech. Usually, this is the oppressed lashing out at the group containing their oppressors. While it is still offensive, it is usually powerless to have an effect on the lives of that more powerful group.

    Which brings us to one of the main reasons hate speech is offensive at all, perhaps the main reason: Its potential to affect, in concrete and adverse ways, the lives of the people it targets. When the oppressed lash out at their oppressors with calumny, it just doesn't have that added oomph. Thus, not as offensive, to me.
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