View Poll Results: Should the Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

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    30 51.72%
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    26 44.83%
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Thread: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

  1. #81
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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Why would it be on paper? it's an electronic file? you're putting your own spin on words in the constitution when they don't clearly say that.
    Because prior to digitization, everything was written on paper or nearly so.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    What if the government is making a log of every website I go to? that's the scenario I was suggesting
    They are clearly outside the bounds of their legal authority.
    No where are they empowered to collect information on the casual habits of the populous, with the exception of the census.


    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Assuming its a public college
    Public colleges are outside the bounds of the federal government.
    Now state funded public colleges are another story but assuming we were going by the strict constitutional standard, they have to uphold your Bill of Rights.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Because prior to digitization, everything was written on paper or nearly so.
    But prior to digitization this record wouldn't exist, so that's a moot point.


    They are clearly outside the bounds of their legal authority.
    No where are they empowered to collect information on the casual habits of the populous, with the exception of the census.
    What if it was for a criminal investigation? Does the internet count as a public or private space? If a cop sees a pot plant in my front yard I can get in trouble for it, after all.


    Public colleges are outside the bounds of the federal government.
    Now state funded public colleges are another story but assuming we were going by the strict constitutional standard, they have to uphold your Bill of Rights.
    The question was whether a arm band is free speech or not
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  3. #83
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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    But prior to digitization this record wouldn't exist, so that's a moot point.
    True but it does count as a paper.
    You'd count files on your computer that were, previously in paper form as paper as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    What if it was for a criminal investigation? Does the internet count as a public or private space? If a cop sees a pot plant in my front yard I can get in trouble for it, after all.
    If something is in plain view, as the pot plant is.
    Yea it's not really a search because you can directly see it.

    Criminal investigations are covered as long as there is probable cause.


    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The question was whether a arm band is free speech or not
    I tend to side with no it isn't, I think the first amendment was clearly for vocal forms of speech.
    I'd have no problem amending it to include symbolic forms though.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    True but it does count as a paper.
    Who says it counts as paper? you say no I say yes, who's right?

    You'd count files on your computer that were, previously in paper form as paper as well.
    But they're not paper now and the document, as written, says nothing about electronic files. Better amend it.


    If something is in plain view, as the pot plant is.
    Yea it's not really a search because you can directly see it.

    Criminal investigations are covered as long as there is probable cause.
    Well do my browsing records count as public or private? Why?


    I tend to side with no it isn't, I think the first amendment was clearly for vocal forms of speech.
    I'd have no problem amending it to include symbolic forms though.
    I disagree and think that it's covered as a form of speech. How do we agree who is right?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  5. #85
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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Who says it counts as paper? you say no I say yes, who's right?
    Technological progression does not change the situation.
    If I only wrote on rocks instead of paper it will still be mine, while electronic versions of information is still in the possession of someone.

    If you feel the need to amend the constitution for it, I'm game.
    I think it would be a great addition to make concretely sure that all forms of information must be subject to due process.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    But they're not paper now and the document, as written, says nothing about electronic files. Better amend it.
    Those things are stored on private computers, which count as "effects."

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Well do my browsing records count as public or private? Why?
    Private, for the government to get these records, they have to, install spy ware or request them from a private individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I disagree and think that it's covered as a form of speech. How do we agree who is right?
    Go to the text, that is the only way.
    The amendment process was made in case things needed to be cleared up.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Technological progression does not change the situation.
    If I only wrote on rocks instead of paper it will still be mine, while electronic versions of information is still in the possession of someone.
    I would argue you have an activist interpretation since you're adding your own meaning to the word "papers"

    If you feel the need to amend the constitution for it, I'm game.
    I think it would be a great addition to make concretely sure that all forms of information must be subject to due process.
    So do you admit the constitution is unclear here?


    Those things are stored on private computers, which count as "effects."
    But they're not computers, they're electronic code. I disagree that electronic code counts as effects.

    Private, for the government to get these records, they have to, install spy ware or request them from a private individual.
    That's your opinion, but the issue is unclear


    Go to the text, that is the only way.
    The amendment process was made in case things needed to be cleared up.
    The text is unclear, we could both be right or wrong
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  7. #87
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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I would argue you have an activist interpretation since you're adding your own meaning to the word "papers"
    Well, then they count as effects because it is inside a persons computer.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    So do you admit the constitution is unclear here?
    It was clear because at that time, they only had papers and the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    But they're not computers, they're electronic code. I disagree that electronic code counts as effects.
    Computers count as effects, you have to get a warrant to search that.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    That's your opinion, but the issue is unclear
    I think it's pretty clear that their are few ways to collect this other than taking it via force or requesting it from someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The text is unclear, we could both be right or wrong
    The text says speech.
    Looking at the dictionary definition, it is only in reference to the spoken word.
    Like I said though, I'd have no problem amending The Constitution to include expression as speech.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    I would like to point out that (history etc.) are my effects and therefore are subject to protection under unreasonable search and seizure. Not sure how it could be argued that they aren't my effects.

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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    She is qualified. Sure she never served as a judge but she was the dean at Harvard law school. Am I the only one who thinks that is more impressive than being a judge?

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    Re: Should The Senate Confirm Elena Kagan

    I voted no. And I voted no because I feel Kagan has not proven to be a law enforcing judge strictly through the laws and not through her ideology. Her past shows that she is very ideological and will break laws in order to push her ideology and protest. I believe she is not able to objectively judge with the Constitution as law and will use her spot to judge based on her personal philosophy.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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