View Poll Results: Is America a Christian nation?

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Thread: Is America a Christian Nation?

  1. #201
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    And while we're at it, why not include the English speaking parts of Canada in the "nation" that includes the US? where are the lines divided? Especially when politics are removed from the equation (as per the parameters from the get go).
    The parameters from the get go spoke specifically to the population within the entity known as "America" or more correctly "The United States of America".

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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Okay this is driving me insane in the other thread so I'm going for a slightly different direction and hopefully not asking three seperate questions as if they'll all the same.

    Is America a Christian Nation.



    NATION as a political term, not nation in regards to the common vernacular of most Americans where its a synonym for both "state" and "country".
    No I think even with the proper use of the term nation we are secular in nature, the American people understand and appreciate the need for secularism, then again it can, also, be stated that the U.S. doesn't actually qualify as a nation to begin with, we do not share a common ancestry, we do not share a common religion, we do not share a common culture, and to a large extent we do not share a common language. Are we a nation? And if so what shared trait defines us as a nation? It would actually seem that we're a state without a nation which IMHO puts us in a very unique position within the world community and has probably played a huge roll in our success.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-09-10 at 01:04 AM.

  3. #203
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The parameters from the get go spoke specifically to the population within the entity known as "America" or more correctly "The United States of America".
    But the issue with that is that the parameters also called for looking at the "cultural" nation instead of just the political nation.

    My point is (and always has been) that cultural nations aren't limited by geo-political boundaries.

    One of the reasons I mentioned Canada is because of Nova Scotia and other parts of the original New England (As defined by the charter granted by James I to the Plymouth Council for New England) that are now part of Canada.

    Hell, New Brunswick was split off of Nova Scotia in 1784 to make a home for the tories who left the newly founded US after we got independence. This is because Nova Scotia would probably have become the 14th US colony if not for the British Naval presence and loyalist government in Halifax. A goodly proportion of the Nova Scotians were in support of the revolution (Unlike Newfoundland which was loyalist to the core).

    Colonial Nova Scotia at teh time of the American revolution represents a perfect example of how nations are not defined by political boundaries. The people of Nova Scotia were the same as the people of the 13 US colonies. Their government (and the subsequent geo-political boundaries that government created) was all that separated them from their American counterparts.

    Even today, I would argue that the people of New Brunswick are more similar to people from Maine than the people of Arizona are (Especially considering the History of that region post .

    And when we're talking about shared history (a portion of the "cultural Nation" definition provided), there's 156-200 years of shared history between Nova Scotia/New Brunswick and Maine prior to Maine getting statehood (assuming that the "shared history" began when these two regions were defined as part of New England in 1620 and ended in 1820 when Maine became a US state).

    Whereas, the shared history between Maine and Arizona is only 98 years (assuming it started when Arizona became a State in 1912, and considering the previously mentioned exclusion of US territories that's a fair starting point.

    If we do decide take it back to the territory era, then Arizona shares 149 years of history with the old confederate states and 147 years of history with the Yankee states (Arizona was a Confederate Territory by choice before becoming a US territory by force. Also the Confederate Arizona territory was the southern portions of the current states of Arizona and New Mexico, while the US Arizona territory was modern Arizona. An interesting side-note regarding "Cultural Nations" and geo-political boundaries can be seen in that little historical note, if I do say so myself ). If we go back to when ths region was part of New Mexico territory, the shared history increases to 160 years for portions and 157 years for other portions (formation of most fo the territory in 1850 and Gadsen purchase in 1853).

    If we go back to the territory days for Maine, its shared history with Nova Scotia/New Brunswick gets decreased to 163 years for portions of it (From 1620 to the end of the Revolutionary war) and 195 years for other portions due to the shifts in the geo-political boundaries between those regions that occured in the interim.

    I point all this historical stuff out to show that the political boundaries are, at best, poor determining factors when discussing "nations", especially considering the fact that nations are defined by the commonalities of the people.
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  4. #204
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It would actually seem that we're a state without a nation which IMHO puts us in a very unique position within the world community and has probably played a huge roll in our success.
    I'd go as far as saying we are a State with many Nations, and that this has played a huge roll in our success.
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    My point is (and always has been) that cultural nations aren't limited by geo-political boundaries.
    .
    All fine and good, but don't speak to the "parameters" put forth by this thread saying they weren't put there when in reality that's not true, you just disagree with the legitimacy of said parameters.

  6. #206
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    All fine and good, but don't speak to the "parameters" put forth by this thread saying they weren't put there when in reality that's not true, you just disagree with the legitimacy of said parameters.
    My appologies then. My confusion is based on the inherent contradiction with this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    NATION as a political term, not nation in regards to the common vernacular of most Americans where its a synonym for both "state" and "country".
    and then limiting the boundaries of the "nation" to those of the State and country.

    You then went on to explain a difference between cultural and political Nations in post #6. Since then, the discussion between us has been pretty focused on the "cultural" nation aspect (which is not going to be defined by political boundaries, but instead by the commonalities between people, no?)

    I guess I've just become confused as to what the parameters are because they seem to be contradictory to me.
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  7. #207
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    My appologies then. My confusion is based on the inherent contradiction with this statement:

    and then limiting the boundaries of the "nation" to those of the State and country.

    You then went on to explain a difference between cultural and political Nations in post #6. Since then, the discussion between us has been pretty focused on the "cultural" nation aspect (which is not going to be defined by political boundaries, but instead by the commonalities between people, no?)

    I guess I've just become confused as to what the parameters are because they seem to be contradictory to me.
    The discussion has revolved around non-political nations because in regards to the political nation of the U.S. we mostly were in agreement. You're rarely going to see an ongoing conversation through 6 pages where one person is going "I view this" and the other person is going "I agree with you on that". The conversation hasn't verged away from a political nation because its not topic, but because that wasn't the point where we disagreed with each other.

    Again, there is no inconsistancy. The inconsistancy is your disagreement with my assertion. Again, that's fine and dandy, but don't act like because you disagree with my assertion that it magically creates an inconsistancy that is unfallably true. There's nothing staying that its impossible nation can't be defined as focusing on the population within an individual geographical area. Simply because you do not wish to do that or find that the notion is not the best use of it doesn't mean that somehow the parameters are impossible nor not set.

    Your last line sets it perfectly. You disagree with the parameters I made and their legitimacy, and therefore reject them, and therefore then confuse yourself because you're arguing against something using your own parameters under the assumption that since you rejected mine that I obviously must accept that and simply use yours.

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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The discussion has revolved around non-political nations because in regards to the political nation of the U.S. we mostly were in agreement. You're rarely going to see an ongoing conversation through 6 pages where one person is going "I view this" and the other person is going "I agree with you on that". The conversation hasn't verged away from a political nation because its not topic, but because that wasn't the point where we disagreed with each other.

    Again, there is no inconsistancy. The inconsistancy is your disagreement with my assertion. Again, that's fine and dandy, but don't act like because you disagree with my assertion that it magically creates an inconsistancy that is unfallably true. There's nothing staying that its impossible nation can't be defined as focusing on the population within an individual geographical area. Simply because you do not wish to do that or find that the notion is not the best use of it doesn't mean that somehow the parameters are impossible nor not set.

    Your last line sets it perfectly. You disagree with the parameters I made and their legitimacy, and therefore reject them, and therefore then confuse yourself because you're arguing against something using your own parameters under the assumption that since you rejected mine that I obviously must accept that and simply use yours.
    I'm not sure I'm merely rejecting it, though.

    I really can't see how it isn't contradictory to want to limit it to the borders of the State/country while also seeking to define nation as: "not nation in regards to the common vernacular ... where its a synonym for both "state" and "country".

    In essence, it seems to me that the question is aksing "What kind of nation is our country, but I don't want nation to mean country."

    Maybe I'm seeing it wrong though.
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    The question is not

    "What kind of nation is our country, but I don't want nation to mean country.""

    Its

    "What kind of nation are the PEOPLE of our country, and by nation I mean the people not the geographical territory itself nor the government"

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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The question is not

    "What kind of nation is our country, but I don't want nation to mean country.""

    Its

    "What kind of nation are the PEOPLE of our country, and by nation I mean the people not the geographical territory itself nor the government"
    OK, I think I'm getting it. I've got to reiterate my previous comment regarding the fact that it would be far less confusing if it was worded as "Are Americans a Christian Nation".

    But since we're talking about the people, I guess any way that we choose to describe the nation would also be applicable to describing the people, no?

    As in: the American people are _________.

    Whatever accurately fills in the blank is an appropriate description of the Nation in this context.

    Then the question becomes:

    "Would "The American people are Christians" be an accurate or inaccurate statement?"

    I think it is innacurate because it excludes the American people who are not Chrsitians.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 07-09-10 at 02:10 PM.
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