View Poll Results: Is America a Christian nation?

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Thread: Is America a Christian Nation?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Read Tucker's posts. I've been arguing the same thing as you and Tuck's been arguing against it baed on the definition of nation being the population, not the government.
    Hell, I am not claiming that I said it first, though I did say it at the begining of this thread...
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Not IMO.

    That just means the majority of people in the US believe in a God (or something along those lines).

    As I said before, it only means the US could be considered a nation of Christians, not that the US is a Christian nation.

    I do not consider the two as equal.
    Apparently you do not understand the term nation then...
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Oh, so in the gulf it's a spill of oil not that the spill is oil. I gotcha.

    X: The disaster in the Gulf is an oil spill.
    You: No no, the disaster in the Gulf has oil, but other compounds are being released as well, such as methane hydrates, so the spill has oil but it is not an oil spill.
    X: lolwut?
    Not the same at all.

    As I see it, while the majority of citizens in the USA are some type of Christian, such does not make the USA a "Christian nation".

    The USA is a nation with majority population of Christians, yes.

    The nation known as the USA is made up mostly of Christian people, also yes.

    But unless the historical knowledge level among US citizens is far worse than I fear it is, the majority of the US population is also made up of people who believe in a nation separate from religion.

    Thus, IMO, the USA is a nation of (majority) Christians, but not a Christian nation.

    You could just as easily say we are a "White nation", just because the majority of the population has white skin.

    When in fact the more accurate statement would be that the US has a larger population of white-skinned people than other skin colors.

    Does that skin color define our very nationhood?

    Perhaps it affects it, but I hope it doesn’t define it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So to break down what you’re saying....

    The United States of America is a Population of Christians not a Christian Population?



    .....que?
    Precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Apparently you do not understand the term nation then...
    If my understanding is correct (and someone helpfully posted a definition previously), then in this instance...

    "Nation" = The body of people whose collective will (in theory) controls and drives the country they live in.

    More or less...
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    But unless the historical knowledge level among US citizens is far worse than I fear it is, the majority of the US population is also made up of people who believe in a nation separate from religion.
    It is worse than you fear it is. The separation is of church and government, not church and nation or church and people.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    When in fact the more accurate statement would be that the US has a larger population of white-skinned people than other skin colors.
    I don't think Congress ever passed a national day of light skin the way they passed a national day of prayer "to the Almighty God".
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-05-10 at 11:45 PM.

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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Not the same at all.

    As I see it, while the majority of citizens in the USA are some type of Christian, such does not make the USA a "Christian nation".

    The USA is a nation with majority population of Christians, yes.

    The nation known as the USA is made up mostly of Christian people, also yes.
    Okay, I'm with you here....

    But unless the historical knowledge level among US citizens is far worse than I fear it is, the majority of the US population is also made up of people who believe in a nation separate from religion.
    No no no no no.

    They're a people who believe in a STATE seperate from Religion.

    You could just as easily say we are a "White nation", just because the majority of the population has white skin.
    However it would be a MUCH harder argument to make. Only around 60% of the population is White. A majority, but hardly a significant majority. This is different than Christian, which holds more than 3/4ths of the population. It would be a much harder argument to suggest a simple majority is all that would be needed to denote a majority.

    In the early days of this country however, near the founding? Absolutely one could consider it a White Nation.

    If my understanding is correct (and someone helpfully posted a definition previously), then in this instance...

    "Nation" = The body of people whose collective will (in theory) controls and drives the country they live in.

    More or less...
    In the realm of this discussion, first and foremost, they wouldn't drive the country. The country is the territory. You're suggestion would be that they drive and control the STATE. No, the people of a nation do not necessarily have to control nor drive the state, though that does not mean they can't.

    A Nation is a group of individuals (in this case defined as within the borders of the country known as the USA) sharing a common religion, ethnicity, language, culture, and/or history. There's some dispute in regards to the and or or there, and political ideology has figured into it as well. However, control over the State is essentially irrelevant to whether or not a nation exists.

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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It is worse than you fear it is. The separation is of church and government, not church and nation or church and people.
    Not quite what I was trying to get at…

    But I agree with your statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I don't think Congress ever passed a national day of light skin the way they passed a national day of prayer "to the Almighty God".
    No idea. Seems unlikely, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Okay, I'm with you here....
    Good.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No no no no no.

    They're a people who believe in a STATE separate from Religion.
    Quite true - I used the incorrect term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However it would be a MUCH harder argument to make. Only around 60% of the population is White. A majority, but hardly a significant majority. This is different than Christian, which holds more than 3/4ths of the population. It would be a much harder argument to suggest a simple majority is all that would be needed to denote a majority.

    In the early days of this country however, near the founding? Absolutely one could consider it a White Nation.
    I would still say “nation of (mostly) white people", rather than “White nation”.

    The difference, as I see it, is what defines the nation.

    In the first, the nation is both the definer and the defined.

    In the second, “white” is the definer and “nation” is defined by it.

    The same point I was attempting to make about “Christian nation”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In the realm of this discussion, first and foremost, they wouldn't drive the country. The country is the territory. You're suggestion would be that they drive and control the STATE. No, the people of a nation do not necessarily have to control nor drive the state, though that does not mean they can't.

    A Nation is a group of individuals (in this case defined as within the borders of the country known as the USA) sharing a common religion, ethnicity, language, culture, and/or history. There's some dispute in regards to the and or there, and political ideology has figured into it as well. However, control over the State is essentially irrelevant to whether or not a nation exists.
    Good point.

    To correct my statements, I would rephrase…

    There is a “Christian nation” in the US. But the US is not a “Christian nation”.

    IMO, the nation that is the USA contains a “Christian nation”, but is not one itself.

    Damn my poor communication skills.
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Honestly, its not poor communication skills but the fact that common speech uses the term nation far differently than Political Science does, which is what I was talking about here.

    So you appear to be in the same mindset as Tucker where 100% of the population must adhere to the commonality that's being quoted for it to be considered a nation? In that case, as I asked him, is it ever actually possible to HAVE a nation since there is almost never going to be a time where 100% of a particular geographical locations population is going to share that commonality to the last man. And if not 100% what's your cut off from when it becomes a nation of "mostly" blank to "a blank nation"?

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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Honestly, its not poor communication skills but the fact that common speech uses the term nation far differently than Political Science does, which is what I was talking about here.

    So you appear to be in the same mindset as Tucker where 100% of the population must adhere to the commonality that's being quoted for it to be considered a nation? In that case, as I asked him, is it ever actually possible to HAVE a nation since there is almost never going to be a time where 100% of a particular geographical locations population is going to share that commonality to the last man. And if not 100% what's your cut off from when it becomes a nation of "mostly" blank to "a blank nation"?
    It’s probably not 100%, but it’s very close.

    Likely 90-95% at the least.

    It would seem to me that at least 90% of the US citizenry consider themselves part of the nation of The United States of America.

    Probably closer to 95%, I would hope.

    Perhaps even 99%, or 100% (although that last is unlikely).

    That comprehensive kind of thing is part of what makes a nation.

    Even people who disagree in large part with the path that nation is on…Still, they often consider themselves part of it.

    Personally, however, I think if you demand “100% commonality”, then no nation CAN exist.

    I think the USA may be closer than some “nations” in that regard, however.

    If less so than in previous years, perhaps.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If my understanding is correct (and someone helpfully posted a definition previously), then in this instance...

    "Nation" = The body of people whose collective will (in theory) controls and drives the country they live in.

    More or less...
    OK I see how you are differentiating. Semantics really though... A Christian Nation is a Nation of Christians to me. The two are synomonous.
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    Re: Is America a Christian Nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In the realm of this discussion, first and foremost, they wouldn't drive the country. The country is the territory. You're suggestion would be that they drive and control the STATE. No, the people of a nation do not necessarily have to control nor drive the state, though that does not mean they can't.

    A Nation is a group of individuals (in this case defined as within the borders of the country known as the USA) sharing a common religion, ethnicity, language, culture, and/or history. There's some dispute in regards to the and or or there, and political ideology has figured into it as well. However, control over the State is essentially irrelevant to whether or not a nation exists.
    Agreed....................
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