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Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

Do you think the U.S. was intended to be a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 19.4%

  • No

    Votes: 99 68.8%

  • other

    Votes: 17 11.8%
  • Total voters
    144
Catz Part Deux said:
It does not reflect anything more than the common practice of dating at the time.
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And that common practice was common among the Christians who dated thing in the Year of their Lord: Jesus.
 
digsbe said:
And that common practice was common among the Christians who dated thing in the Year of their Lord: Jesus.
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I never could understand the split personality of our Lord/Jesus.
 
digsbe said:
And that common practice was common among the Christians who dated thing in the Year of their Lord: Jesus.
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That doesn't mean anything about using it in current context. Things change all sorts of meaning over time. And even though AD may have originally refered to Jesus, it's a time marker now; something we still use because of coincidence of history. Nothing more, and nothing less. You have nothing to prove your assertion about this AD thing. And it's quite honestly a very dumb claim.
 
digsbe said:
And that common practice was common among the Christians who dated thing in the Year of their Lord: Jesus.
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This is so ridiculously wrong it's almost obscene. Pick up a ****ing history book will you? A.D. is NOT a Christian practice. It is a ROMAN practice. A-D stands for ANNO-DOMINE. ANNO stands for Year and DOMINE in Latin means 'Leader'(or 'of our Leader). The leader in this case being Julius Caesar. NOT God, Jesus or whomever your flavor of religious faith is this week that is DEI. This explains why we have the JULIAN Calendar later replaced by the GREGORIAN(established by Pope Gregory XIII) and not the 'JESUS' Calendar. Please stop. I don't want to destroy your Christian ignorance with Google.
 
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Hatuey said:
This is so ridiculously wrong it's almost obscene. Pick up a ****ing history book will you? A.D. is NOT a Christian practice. It is a ROMAN practice. A-D stands for ANNO-DOMINE. ANNO stands for Year and DOMINE in Latin means 'Leader'(or 'of our Leader). The leader in this case being Julius Caesar. NOT God, Jesus or whomever your flavor of religious faith is this week that is DEI. This explains why we have the JULIAN Calendar later replaced by the GREGORIAN(established by Pope Gregory XIII) and not the 'JESUS' Calendar. Please stop. I don't want to destroy your Christian ignorance with Google.
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Incorrect.
Anno Domini (abbreviated as AD or A.D., sometimes found in the irregular form Anno Domine) and Before Christ (abbreviated as BC or B.C.) are designations used to label years in the Julian and Gregorian calendars. The calendar era to which they refer is based on the traditionally reckoned year of the conception or birth of Jesus, with AD denoting years after the start of this epoch, and BC denoting years before the start of this epoch. There is no year zero in this scheme, so the year AD 1 immediately follows the year 1 BC. This dating system was devised in AD 525, but was not widely used until after AD 800
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The term Anno Domini is Medieval Latin, translated as In the year of (the/Our) Lord.[2][3]:782 It is sometimes specified more fully as Anno Domini Nostri Iesu (Jesu) Christi ("In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ").
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Anno Domini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Digsbe -> Pwnage -> hatuey


Heck that was almost self-pwnage it was so pitiful...
 
digsbe said:
And that common practice was common among the Christians who dated thing in the Year of their Lord: Jesus.
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It was common among EVERYONE, just like referring to Odin on Wednesday is common to you, in spite of your Christian faith. Please stop being ridiculous.
 
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I consider America to be founded with Christian values, but not with religious Christians. Come to think of it, all four major religions, (Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity) all share similar values about respecting life, living a good life, things like that. I wouldn't be surprised if God, Allah, Buddha were the same immortal person and had 4 prophets who spread their own views about him/her. Anyway, America was founded with religious values
 
Catz Part Deux said:
It was common among EVERYONE, just like referring to Odin on Wednesday is common to you, in spite of your Christian faith. Please stop being ridiculous.
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It was a common Christian practice ;) The phrase exalts Jesus as their Lord. If they were truly secular and non Christian I doubt they would have done that.
 
digsbe said:
It was a common Christian practice ;) The phrase exalts Jesus as their Lord. If they were truly secular and non Christian I doubt they would have done that.
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Do you realize how weak your argument is at this point? That is the ONLY basis you have for claiming that the constitution endorses and is influenced by Christianity, the manner in which the date is written. This stands, of course, in opposition to the specific clauses in the constitution which address this topic in no uncertain terms.

I'm sorry that your paradigms on this issue have overruled your normal good sense.

You've also created a strawman. I'm not arguing that the majority of founding fathers weren't Christians. I'm arguing that the constitution, in spite of this, is a secular document that does not endorse or enshrine religious belief. Do you want to argue the topic, or do you prefer to just graciously resign the discussion at this point?
 
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digsbe said:
It was a common Christian practice ;) The phrase exalts Jesus as their Lord. If they were truly secular and non Christian I doubt they would have done that.
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Are you paying homage to Odin when you use the word Wednesday?
 
digsbe said:
It was a common Christian practice ;) The phrase exalts Jesus as their Lord. If they were truly secular and non Christian I doubt they would have done that.
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It doesn't matter what it was. It wasn't the same thing 1000 years later, it's notation and nothing more. I can use AD as much as I like to mark a year without involking any sort of god. AD is just notation now.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Do you realize how weak your argument is at this point? That is the ONLY basis you have for claiming that the constitution endorses and is influenced by Christianity, the manner in which the date is written. This stands, of course, in opposition to the specific clauses in the constitution which address this topic in no uncertain terms.

I'm sorry that your paradigms on this issue have overruled your normal good sense.

You've also created a strawman. I'm not arguing that the majority of founding fathers weren't Christians. I'm arguing that the constitution, in spite of this, is a secular document that does not endorse or enshrine religious belief. Do you want to argue the topic, or do you prefer to just graciously resign the discussion at this point?
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That isn't my only argument, that is the proof I gave of the Constitution mentioning Christian deity. If you look at the Declaration, the Constitution, the beliefs and quotes of the founding fathers, and the fact that our nation has its history rooted in fleeing religious persecution and the free practice of Christianity, then one can logically believe and know that this country was founded upon Christian beliefs and by Christian individuals.

The Constitution sets up a democratic republic, not a theocracy. However, this democratic republic was guided, strongly influenced, and founded upon Christian beliefs and by Christians. Christianity influenced and was a major (not the only) foundation for this secular democracy.

Catz Part Deux said:
Are you paying homage to Odin when you use the word Wednesday?
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Nope, but I would be paying homage to God if I cited my dates with "in the year of my/our Lord." One can simply say the numbers correlating to the date if they chose to.
Ikari said:
It doesn't matter what it was. It wasn't the same thing 1000 years later, it's notation and nothing more. I can use AD as much as I like to mark a year without involking any sort of god. AD is just notation now.
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It was a formal declaration and dating style to uphold Jesus as Lord in His year. They had other formal dating phrases. If the Constitution was truly devoid of all things God and religious, I'm sure they would have picked or created a secular dating notation.
 
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digsbe said:
That isn't my only argument, that is the proof I gave of the Constitution mentioning Christian deity. If you look at the Declaration, the Constitution, the beliefs and quotes of the founding fathers, and the fact that our nation has its history rooted in fleeing religious persecution and the free practice of Christianity, then one can logically believe and know that this country was founded upon Christian beliefs and by Christian individuals.
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Except that these beliefs are not reflected in our founding documents (aside from the date). There is no reference to Christianity, WHATSOEVER, in those documents, and this was a purposeful decision by the founding fathers, who debated this topic.

The Constitution sets up a democratic republic, not a theocracy. However, this democratic republic was guided, strongly influenced, and founded upon Christian beliefs and by Christians.
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Really. What Christian beliefs provide the basis for the republic? You’re simply wrong. Christianity held that rebellion against a divinely appointed ruler was a sin. It was enlightenment doctrine that suggested that all men were entitled to liberty.

You have fallen prey to the snake oil peddlers.

Christianity influenced and was a major (not the only) foundation for this secular democracy.
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Please feel free to cite the specific sections of the constitution that were founded on Christian dogma.

Nope, but I would be paying homage to God if I cited my dates with "in the year of my/our Lord."
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Arbitrary and false double standard.

One can simply say the numbers correlating to the date if they chose to.
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But in that era, they did not.

It was a formal declaration and dating style to uphold Jesus as Lord in His year.
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Please feel free to provide evidence that the founding fathers INTENTIONALLY CHOSE that system of dating to pay homage to god. A quote from any of them will be sufficient.
 
Mellie said:
Fabulous! I'll await your dissertation on exactly who was agnostic and who was a Deist since you "know all about our founding Fathers".

And I take it you think none were Christians?
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I do not recall saying none were X-tians. Care to point out where I said that? Do not waste your time because you cannot. It is clear that the majority of them were not. That pretty much sums it up. The End:)
 
Bodhisattva said:
You are all arguing and irrlevant point. I already addressed this. The US was not intended to have a Christian government. The US was intended to be a country that was open to any religion, and the religion that is dominant would make the nation one of that religion. The USA is a Christian Nation, for reasons already addressed...
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Off topic but here is a Reagan Quote you may enjoy:)

"We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we
mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must
remain, separate.

All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith
or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to to speak
of and act on their belief.

At the same time that our Constitution prohibits state establishment of
religion, it protects the free exercise of all religions. And walking
this fine line requires government to be strictly neutral."
 
Kali said:
I do not recall saying none were X-tians. Care to point out where I said that? Do not waste your time because you cannot. It is clear that the majority of them were not. That pretty much sums it up. The End:)
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I assumed that since you said they were agnostics and Deists. How is it "clear that the majority of them were not" Christians? Because you say so?
 
Kali said:
I do not recall saying none were X-tians. Care to point out where I said that? Do not waste your time because you cannot. It is clear that the majority of them were not. That pretty much sums it up. The End:)
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A majority were. A notable many were not. My fifth-great-uncle was certainly among those who were. It is quite fine that many were not. We have many today who are not exactly religious, but are good men. We also have a majority who are religious, and many who are at least good men. This is nothing to be so anxious about. I understand that many want to be the same as the "Founding Fathers", and you in some way, want them to be similar to you, but it isn't necessarily so.

Glenn Beck and his "followers" (I would be more apt to say "spirited comrades") may claim to be on the side of the "Founding Fathers", but part of it is pure fantasy. The point is, most of our "Founding Fathers" were Christian, but many who were more famous than others, were also Deist. And it is quite alright to stop short of "their" beliefs, because to a degree, we can't join them. At any rate, due to the nature of a majority being Christian, their "Christian" attitudes and quirks become apart of the nation, perhaps more so than they could have figured out. It doesn't mean that they didn't perceive a difference between government and religious organization, but it could mean that some had different perceptions of what that difference entailed. This also explains why those like Jefferson were so unique in how far they wished to create the divide between state and religion (Virginia and University of Virginia), whereas others were not so predisposed.
 
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Mellie said:
I assumed that since you said they were agnostics and Deists. How is it "clear that the majority of them were not" Christians? Because you say so?
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Many of the founders were freemasons, including Washington, Franklin, Hancock, etc.

The freemasons were all against the establishment of any state religions. Remember, that this was a secret society and none of them wanted religion to have any power in how our country was governed.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
Many of the founders were freemasons, including Washington, Franklin, Hancock, etc.

The freemasons were all against the establishment of any state religions. Remember, that this was a secret society and none of them wanted religion to have any power in how our country was governed.
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Who is saying they wanted religious power in our government?
 
Fiddytree said:
A majority were. A notable many were not. My fifth-great-uncle was certainly among those who were. It is quite fine that many were not. We have many today who are not exactly religious, but are good men. We also have a majority who are religious, and many who are at least good men. This is nothing to be so anxious about. I understand that many want to be the same as the "Founding Fathers", and you in some way, want them to be similar to you, but it isn't necessarily so.

Glenn Beck and his "followers" (I would be more apt to say "spirited comrades") may claim to be on the side of the "Founding Fathers", but part of it is pure fantasy. The point is, most of our "Founding Fathers" were Christian, but many who were more famous than others, were also Deist. And it is quite alright to stop short of "their" beliefs, because to a degree, we can't join them. At any rate, due to the nature of a majority being Christian, their "Christian" attitudes and quirks become apart of the nation, perhaps more so than they could have figured out. It doesn't mean that they didn't perceive a difference between government and religious organization, but it could mean that some had different perceptions of what that difference entailed. This also explains why those like Jefferson were so unique in how far they wished to create the divide between state and religion (Virginia and University of Virginia), whereas others were not so predisposed.
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Was that your Uncle Sam?:popcorn2:
 
Fiddytree said:
A majority were. A notable many were not. My fifth-great-uncle was certainly among those who were. It is quite fine that many were not. We have many today who are not exactly religious, but are good men. We also have a majority who are religious, and many who are at least good men. This is nothing to be so anxious about. I understand that many want to be the same as the "Founding Fathers", and you in some way, want them to be similar to you, but it isn't necessarily so.

Glenn Beck and his "followers" (I would be more apt to say "spirited comrades") may claim to be on the side of the "Founding Fathers", but part of it is pure fantasy. The point is, most of our "Founding Fathers" were Christian, but many who were more famous than others, were also Deist. And it is quite alright to stop short of "their" beliefs, because to a degree, we can't join them. At any rate, due to the nature of a majority being Christian, their "Christian" attitudes and quirks become apart of the nation, perhaps more so than they could have figured out. It doesn't mean that they didn't perceive a difference between government and religious organization, but it could mean that some had different perceptions of what that difference entailed. This also explains why those like Jefferson were so unique in how far they wished to create the divide between state and religion (Virginia and University of Virginia), whereas others were not so predisposed.
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Please do not try to claim I am anxious about anything, ok?

I find it pretty arrogant of you to assume I wish that my founding fathers are/were like me. Look save your shrink crap for someone else as you do not know me. Got it.

You are being condesending and do not doubt my ability to pick up on it.
 
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