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Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

Do you think the U.S. was intended to be a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 19.4%

  • No

    Votes: 99 68.8%

  • other

    Votes: 17 11.8%
  • Total voters
    144
Ikari said:
So less than half the States have this as a law, and it doesn't seem like it's widely used at all. A case or two every few years at most. Again, it really appears to be a seldom used law and only when cops and the DA are trying to be dicks.
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Well, yea, it's 2010. I'm sure it was far more common and more rigorously prosecuted a century or two ago.

If this were something that all states had and was actively enforced; ok I'd buy it. But it's not. If the US were founded on Christian values, this and the other 6 non-law Commandments would be law everywhere.
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I don't see how the existence or enforcement of an adultery law today says anything one way or the other about whether the country was "founded on Christian values."
 
RightinNYC said:
Well, yea, it's 2010. I'm sure it was far more common and more rigorously prosecuted a century or two ago.
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In the article it said only 13 people had prosecuted under the NY law.
 
winston53660 said:
In the article it said only 13 people had prosecuted under the NY law.
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It's only 13 people since 1972, but the law itself was passed back in 1908. I would be surprised if they went to all the trouble of passing the law but then never enforced it for 60+ years, regardless of what the ABC article seems to imply. That's also just NY.

Either way, this is all fairly irrelevant to the larger issue, as the existence of an adultery law doesn't prove anything about the "christianity" of the founders. I just saw Catz's comment and thought this was an interesting turn of events.
 
RightinNYC said:
It's only 13 people since 1972, but the law itself was passed back in 1908. I would be surprised if they went to all the trouble of passing the law but then never enforced it for 60+ years, regardless of what the ABC article seems to imply. That's also just NY.
.
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The article said:

Suzanne M. Corona of Batavia, N.Y., became only the 13th person in the history of New York to be charged with adultery when she was arrested last Friday along with Justin Amend.
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Either way, this is all fairly irrelevant to the larger issue, as the existence of an adultery law doesn't prove anything about the "christianity" of the founders. I just saw Catz's comment and thought this was an interesting turn of events.
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Yeah I pretty much agree.
 
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RightinNYC said:
Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing or that it would withstand a challenge. I'm just noting that it is and has been prosecuted throughout our history.
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Of course, if I'm not mistaken, fornication and adultery were illegal in Rome, as well.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
Whoa, dude. the constitution does not mention Jesus.
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Actually it does, and it exalts him as Lord "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven"
pbrauer said:
Most of the founders were deists who simply believe in a Creator, not a God. Where is Jesus referenced in the Constitution? The goal in the Constitution is found in the Preamble - to have a "more perfect union" I presume over British rule.
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Many of them were Christian theologians as well. Many of their quotes would show that they have strong Christian faith
Catz Part Deux said:
Specifically, what Christian ideals do you believe were foundational to creating this nation?
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Ideals like personal freedom, not having the church run government (as Europe had been doing), and the personal rights of humans as given to them by God. We have our rights because the founders believed God gave them to us.
History fail. The constitution makes no mention of god or Jesus.
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See above, the Constitution is signed in the year of the Lord (Jesus Christ). The Declaration of Independence has reference to God as well.
No. The Declaration never mentions your god (YHWH). The Declaration makes mention of a creator, but is non-specific.
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"Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" is in the Declaration. The Declaration was written by Christians and Natures God is capitalized (indicating the Christian God). Who is the Creator? Are Christians writing about Shiva or Allah?
Quotes plz?


Insert eyeroll.
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I have provided quotes, and you don't have to respond to my last comment if you don't want too. It is still foolish to ignore or deny the Christian heritage of the United States.
 
Thank you. I call such people "Willfully ignorant". :)

BCR said:
I apologize as in hindsight it was indeed out of hand. It's become a habit for me to call people who I think are ignorant morons, which I need to stop.
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digsbe said:
Ideals like personal freedom, not having the church run government (as Europe had been doing), and the personal rights of humans as given to them by God. We have our rights because the founders believed God gave them to us.
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But which God? They never say.

See above, the Constitution is signed in the year of the Lord (Jesus Christ). The Declaration of Independence has reference to God as well.
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WEAK SAUCE. And no, Jesus Christ is never named, and this does not construe religiousity.

"Laws of Nature and of Nature's God"is in the Declaration. The Declaration was written by Christians and Natures God is capitalized (indicating the Christian God). Who is the Creator? Are Christians writing about Shiva or Allah?
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Or perhaps, all of the above. Since all claim to be creators. Zeus, maybe, too. The creator is scrupulously NOT identified by name.
 
ricksfolly said:
I don't know if it was intended to be or not, but of course 99 percent believed in God. There were a few rebels like Ingersol and Pain, and even they hadn't resolved all the questions and mysteries that still plague would-be atheists today.

Myself, as a materialistic naturalist, I don't have to answer all those questions,

ricksfolly
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Would not only God know who believed in Him? Just asking.:roll:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
But which God? They never say.
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They say Creator, and Natures God. This was written by Christians who capitalized the nouns indicating they are proper and not simply descriptive of the general idea of "god" or a "creator."

WEAK SAUCE. And no, Jesus Christ is never named, and this does not construe religiousity.
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Jesus Christ is named. He is named and it is directly evident with "The Year of our Lord..." The A.D. system was based around Jesus' coming to earth. They recognize Jesus as Lord with that sentence.
Or perhaps, all of the above. Since all claim to be creators. Zeus, maybe, too. The creator is scrupulously NOT identified by name.
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It doesn't matter. As I said. The constitution was written by Christians and the nouns capitalized to indicate a proper noun. We can logically believe that they were talking about the Christian God as 1) Christians wrote it. 2) The nouns are capitalized. 3) There is no wording that suggests they are talking about any other god from another religion. Taken by the facts of the founders' faiths and the citing of Jesus in the Constitution, we can logically believe that yes, the Christian God is mentioned.
 
digsbe said:
They say Creator, and Natures God. This was written by Christians who capitalized the nouns indicating they are proper and not simply descriptive of the general idea of "god" or a "creator."


Jesus Christ is named. He is named and it is directly evident with "The Year of our Lord..." The A.D. system was based around Jesus' coming to earth. They recognize Jesus as Lord with that sentence.

It doesn't matter. As I said. The constitution was written by Christians and the nouns capitalized to indicate a proper noun. We can logically believe that they were talking about the Christian God as 1) Christians wrote it. 2) The nouns are capitalized. 3) There is no wording that suggests they are talking about any other god from another religion. Taken by the facts of the founders' faiths and the citing of Jesus in the Constitution, we can logically believe that yes, the Christian God is mentioned.
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God only knows what you profess. Too many christians claim to speak for God. Oooga Booga
 
digsbe said:
They say Creator, and Natures God. This was written by Christians who capitalized the nouns indicating they are proper and not simply descriptive of the general idea of "god" or a "creator."
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Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?

Jesus Christ is named. He is named and it is directly evident with "The Year of our Lord..." The A.D. system was based around Jesus' coming to earth. They recognize Jesus as Lord with that sentence.
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That's really the best you can do here, isn't it? Well, thanks, Dave Barton, Jr., for your contribution to this thread.

It doesn't matter. As I said. The constitution was written by Christians and the nouns capitalized to indicate a proper noun. We can logically believe that they were talking about the Christian God as 1) Christians wrote it. 2) The nouns are capitalized. 3) There is no wording that suggests they are talking about any other god from another religion. Taken by the facts of the founders' faiths and the citing of Jesus in the Constitution, we can logically believe that yes, the Christian God is mentioned.
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Who, specifically, wrote the constitution? Your lack of historical knowledge is appalling.
 
digsbe said:
It doesn't matter. As I said. The constitution was written by Christians and the nouns capitalized to indicate a proper noun. We can logically believe that they were talking about the Christian God as 1) Christians wrote it. 2) The nouns are capitalized. 3) There is no wording that suggests they are talking about any other god from another religion. Taken by the facts of the founders' faiths and the citing of Jesus in the Constitution, we can logically believe that yes, the Christian God is mentioned.
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Jesus is not cited in the Constitution. The only references to religious gods (not standard temporal markers) was in the Declaration of Independence which was a propaganda piece to legitimize revolt against England. The use of gods in that was the same as many uses of gods before, to try to add "legitimacy" to a claim by saying there is some supernatural thing no one has ever seen which agrees with their position.
 
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven
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.

The founding fathers used the term September, which means 7th month, using the Gregorian calendar. So, when they dated the Declaration of Independence in July, does that mean that they were acknowledging Julius Caesar as a God?

Your claim is simply ridiculous, though I've heard it before.

Debunked here:

Constitutional Topic: The Constitution and Religion - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
 
pbrauer said:
Most of the founders were deists
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Absolutely incorrect as I've already shown here.

But I would love for you to try to explain yourself. How many is "most" and who were they?
 
Catz Part Deux said:
.

The founding fathers used the term September, which means 7th month, using the Gregorian calendar. So, when they dated the Declaration of Independence in July, does that mean that they were acknowledging Julius Caesar as a God?

Your claim is simply ridiculous, though I've heard it before.

Debunked here:

Constitutional Topic: The Constitution and Religion - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
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Your stawman is invalid. The Year of our Lord was a common Christian dating term. It does not equate with using the month "September" in the calender. This is what your debunk said
Finally, the Constitution refers to the year that the Convention created the document as "the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven." Some have argued that the use of the term "Lord" in this way is indicative of something, but it is indicative of nothing more than a standard way of referring to years in that time period.
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It's merely opinion and offers no refutation. The "Year of our Lord" directly reflects Jesus Christ.
 
digsbe said:
It's merely opinion and offers no refutation. The "Year of our Lord" directly reflects Jesus Christ.
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No, it's merely a naming convention. It may have at one time been based on what was believed to be the birth of Jesus; but that doesn't mean that whenever anyone uses it they are acknowledging Jesus. Else atheists couldn't use it at all. But we do, because it has become nothing more than a naming convention. July is named after Julius, August from Augustus, January for Janus, etc. Of course, historically that's what these things referenced. But when you use January, you aren't making claim to Janus. It's merely a naming convention; that's it. Nothing less, nothing more. You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill in order to prove a point that doesn't exist.
 
digsbe said:
Your stawman is invalid. The Year of our Lord was a common Christian dating term. .
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It was common in Europe of which most had state controlled religions.
 
Let's get something straight here people. This country was NEVER founded on any idea of "freedom of religion". Only in such places as pennsylvania and Rhode Island were competing minor religions tolerated. The establishment clause was created ONLY on a federal level so as to protect any ONE christian sect from dominating the others at the federal level. States were free to discriminate, have state religions, and have religious tests for state offices (some still have these tests on books today) and MANY did. It wasn't until the addition of the 14th amendment (nearly 100 years later) that the states were held to the same standards as the federal government.
 
digsbe said:
Your stawman is invalid. The Year of our Lord was a common Christian dating term. It does not equate with using the month "September" in the calender. This is what your debunk said It's merely opinion and offers no refutation. The "Year of our Lord" directly reflects Jesus Christ.
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It does not reflect anything more than the common practice of dating at the time.
 
Ikari said:
No, it's merely a naming convention. It may have at one time been based on what was believed to be the birth of Jesus; but that doesn't mean that whenever anyone uses it they are acknowledging Jesus. Else atheists couldn't use it at all. But we do, because it has become nothing more than a naming convention. July is named after Julius, August from Augustus, January for Janus, etc. Of course, historically that's what these things referenced. But when you use January, you aren't making claim to Janus. It's merely a naming convention; that's it. Nothing less, nothing more. You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill in order to prove a point that doesn't exist.
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Don't even get me started on the days of the week...REALLY pagan, those things. ^.^


I wonder if Digsbe has ever considered that whenever he uses the term Monday, he's deifying the Moon. When he says Tuesday, he's proclaiming the deity of Tiwaz, a germanic god of war. When he says Wednesday, he's bowing before Odin. Thursday, of course, pays homage to Thor.

Do I need to go on?
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Don't even get me started on the days of the week...REALLY pagan, those things. ^.^


I wonder if Digsbe has ever considered that whenever he uses the term Monday, he's deifying the Moon. When he says Tuesday, he's proclaiming the deity of Tiwaz, a germanic god of war. When he says Wednesday, he's bowing before Odin. Thursday, of course, pays homage to Thor.

Do I need to go on?
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Did you know Sunday is in the Constitution. That must make us all pagans huh?
 
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