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Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

Do you think the U.S. was intended to be a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 19.4%
  • No

    Votes: 99 68.8%
  • other

    Votes: 17 11.8%

  • Total voters
    144
I did vote other but only because their professional education from the enlightenment drove them to a secular charter. In action though I think they were fundamentalist christians.
 
pb, I found an article that she wrote about it instead of watching the video. She claims that the Congress never authorized The Bible and never said it should be used in schools, yes?

Aitken's petition to Congress specifically said he wanted to create it for schools to use. Congress looked it over and deemed it worthy of publication and gave their permission. They authorized the publication and recommended it to the people of America. They didn't tell Aitken that it couldn't be used in school. They knew he wanted it published for that reason since he wrote it in his initial letter to them.

Not sure what you're seeing there that's wrong....

Here's his petition to Congress:
To the Honourable The Congress
of the United States of America
The Memorial of Robert Aitken
of the City of Philadelphia, Printer

Humbly Sheweth

That in every well regulated Government in Christendom The Sacred Books of the Old and New Testament, commonly called the Holy Bible, are printed and published under the Authority of the Sovereign Powers, in order to prevent the fatal confusion that would arise, and the alarming Injuries the Christian Faith might suffer from the Spurious and erroneous Editions of Divine Revelation. That your Memorialist has no doubt but this work is an Object worthy the attention of the Congress of the United States of America, who will not neglect spiritual security, while they are virtuously contending for temporal blessings. Under this persuasion your Memorialist begs leave to, inform your Honours That he both begun and made considerable progress in a neat Edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools, But being cautious of suffering his copy of the Bible to Issue forth without the sanction of Congress, Humbly prays that your Honours would take this important matter into serious consideration & would be pleased to appoint one Member or Members of your Honourable Body to inspect his work so that the same may be published under the Authority of Congress. And further, your Memorialist prays, that he may be commissioned or otherwise appointed & Authorized to print and vend Editions of, the Sacred Scriptures, in such manner and form as may best suit the wants and demands of the good people of these States, provided the same be in all things perfectly consonant to the Scriptures as heretofore Established and received amongst us.
 
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I think you would be surpised at just how many of them thought that religion was a bad thing.

A better and more accurate line would be :

I think you would be surprised at just how many of them thought that organized state controlled religion was a bad thing.
 
I think the country was founded as a secular country, but with a strong christian influence. The question does not lend itself well to a simple yes or no answer. To deny the christian influence is to deny reality, but to say the country was founded as a christian country is equally false.

How about The King of England is a poopie head?

Reading the Declaration of Independence, it's a laundry list of why we think the King sucks. Religion has frankly nothing to do with the founding as a country.
 
How about The King of England is a poopie head?

Reading the Declaration of Independence, it's a laundry list of why we think the King sucks. Religion has frankly nothing to do with the founding as a country.

It had nothing to do with the reasons we founded the country. It had something more to do with how we set up the country.
 
Actually, it could be argued that our founding fathers were in rebellion against God. After all, in Romans 13: 1, Paul makes it very clear that " Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

Clearly, our leaders weren't really Christians, or they'd have remained loyal subjects to their annointed ruler, King George 3 of England.
Even with that misinterpretation, that's a pretty big ****en stretch you got going there. Like, damn, I have no idea how you get that.
 
It had nothing to do with the reasons we founded the country. It had something more to do with how we set up the country.

You consider the original colony time the same as our time as a seperate country? The leaders were quite different in the time periods. With different views on government. And remember that many of the religious pilgrims were running away from fellow Christians.
 
I hear all the time that "this is a Christian Nation". Do you think this is so.

I am going to go ahead and say anyone who truly thinks this country was meant to be a Christian nation is a complete moron. The founding fathers were secularist, there is some evidence indicating Thomas Jefferson was at least agnostic.

" The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." -Thomas Jefferson

I agree with you on the poll, but that quote is not Jefferson's.

"This quotation has not been found in any writings of Thomas Jefferson. However, it does bear some slight resemblance to several genuine Jefferson quotations, so it is feasible that the above could be traced back to these."

The Christian god is a three headed monster - Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia
 
BCR, have you ever read a biography of Thomas Jefferson? Have you read his writings? He was clearly NOT agnostic.

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. "
"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."
Thomas Jefferson
 
How about The King of England is a poopie head?

Wow, that's great. Where were you when they were writing the Declaration of Independence? What you say is so much better. ;)
 
GRRRRR....

Incorrect uses of nation make Zyphlin frustratingly angry.

We are in large part a Christian Nation, and were unquestionably one at the time of the founding.

We are a wholly and completely Secular State, and have been since the founding.

Whether or not the country was founded on Christian principles or morals is up for spirited debate. Most of the founding fathers, while perhaps espousing deist beliefs, were raised and had their morality shaped by Christianity. Many, such as Jefferson, even still attended Church and while he found that the Bible was not likely the work of the divine but of man still felt it was in general good morals to live by from what I understand. One could also make the argument that unquestionably the make up of the countries society and culture at that time, which was strikingly influenced by Christian principles due to the vast majority of the settlers that came over being of that religion, influenced the founding principles of which the country came into being. Still, an equally strong argument can be made that it's founding principles were completely areligious due to the many secularist philosophers that helped contribute to the inspiration of the founders. Its a back and forth thing.

So to sum up...

Nation = Christian
State = Secular
Founding Principles = Up for debate
 
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. "
"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."
Thomas Jefferson

I'm confused, are you supporting Mellie's post or not?

From all I've read it is far more realistic and appropriate to label Jefferson as a Deist then as a Agnostic.
 
I hear all the time that "this is a Christian Nation". Do you think this is so.

I am going to go ahead and say anyone who truly thinks this country was meant to be a Christian nation is a complete moron. The founding fathers were secularist, there is some evidence indicating Thomas Jefferson was at least agnostic.

" The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." -Thomas Jefferson

You know that quote is total bull****, and that Jefferson never said it.
The Christian god is a three headed monster - Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia

The entire and sole purpose of this thread and all other threads like this, is to argue against the 1st Amendment and religious freedom. In my opinion, the people behind these debates hate religion, and want these beliefs subdued and eliminated from public view. These people do not understand Christianity in the slightest, and they don't make the same arguments against ANY other religion.

Sir, I have to thank you for your pamphlets on the subject of Unitarianism, and to express my gratification with your efforts for the revival of primitive Christianity in your quarter. No historical fact is better established, than that the doctrine of one God, pure and uncompounded, was that of the early ages of Christianity; and was among the efficacious doctrines which gave it triumph over the polytheism of the ancients, sickened with the absurdities of their own theology. Nor was the unity of the Supreme Being ousted from the Christian creed by the force of reason, but by the sword of civil government, wielded at the will of the fanatic Athanasius. The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs. And a strong proof of the solidity of the primitive faith, is its restoration, as soon as a nation arises which vindicates to itself the freedom of religious opinion, and its external divorce from the civil authority. The pure and simple unity of the Creator of the universe, is now all but ascendant in the Eastern States; it is dawning in the West, and advancing towards the South; and I confidently expect that the present generation will see Unitarianism become the general religion of the United States. The Eastern presses are giving us many excellent pieces on the subject, and Priestley's learned writings on it are, or should be, in every hand. In fact, the Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three but one, is so incomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself. He proves, also, that man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.
I write with freedom, because while I claim a right to believe in one God, if so my reason tells me, I yield as freely to others that of believing in three. Both religions, I find, make honest men, and that is the only point society has any right to look to. Although this mutual freedom should produce mutual indulgence, yet I wish not to be brought in question before the public on this or any other subject, and I pray you to consider me as writing under that trust. I take no part in controversies, religious or political. At the age of eighty, tranquility is the greatest good of life, and the strongest of our desires that of dying in the good will of all mankind. And with the assurance of all my good will to Unitarian and Trinitarian, to Whig and Tory, accept for yourself that of my entire respect. -- Jefferson's letter to Rev. James Smith, December 8, 1822.

Jefferson wasn't arguing against religion or Christianity, but against the Trinity only. You are deceived by your blind belief that Christianity is the death of America, when it is the life that carried this country through hard times and gave it a central value that unified the nation. I get so sick of people who want to make Jefferson a deist or even an atheist, because it is total bull****. You want to believe in God or not, that's your business, but don't try to turn the greatest men in this nations history into lies, to deceive yourselves and others around you.

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven [the Father], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Here are the THREE, the Father, The Holy Spirit, and the Son...respectively. Are they One? It doesn't appear so here. So Jefferson is arguing that the concept of the Trinity is impossible and incomprehensible.
 
I'm confused, are you supporting Mellie's post or not?

From all I've read it is far more realistic and appropriate to label Jefferson as a Deist then as a Agnostic.

No, I don't agree with Mellie. Mostly I was just posting some accurate Jefferson quotes because I thought they were interesting.
 
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. "
"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."
Thomas Jefferson

I love this Jefferson quote.

I'm confused, though. Do you think Jefferson was agnostic?
 
Jefferson wasn't arguing against religion or Christianity, but against the Trinity only. ...

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven [the Father], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Here are the THREE, the Father, The Holy Spirit, and the Son...respectively. Are they One? It doesn't appear so here. So Jefferson is arguing that the concept of the Trinity is impossible and incomprehensible.
.


This is probably not the appropriate venue, but Jefferson isn't the first person to have difficulty envisioning or accepting the Trinity concept.

I believe in it. Without going into a lot of detail, there are various clues in scripture that indicate that God is a being of greater complexity than Man (he told Moses no man could see Him in his entirety and live); I suspect that He is in fact, multi-dimensional (existing in 4 or more dimensions at once) and that three-dimensional humanity is only capable of interacting with a small "portion" of Him at one time.

Imagine three interlocking circles in a triangular configuration. Each shares a portion of its volume with each of the others; near the middle there is a volume that all three circles share. Yet each circle also has a portion of its volume that is its own. I see this as the Trinity: each avatar, aspect or personality of the One exists and is distinct, but is also absolutely a portion of the One. We call these three faces, avatars, aspects or personalities the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but acknowlege that they are one omnipotent being.

In the Old Testament, God interacted with the world primarily in the form of the Father, who is holiness and judgement. In the Gospels, he walked the earth among us, as one of us, in the person of the Son, who is mercy and forgiveness, atonement and redemption. After Pentecost, he gave each believer an internal link to the Holy Spirit, the Comforter and Guide.

Actually I find it appropriate and reasonable that the nature of an Omniscient, Omnipotent and Eternal Creator should be complex and not easily understood by the mortal mind.
 
No. This nation was not founded upon any Christian principle. Christianity does not teach anything about democracy or representative republics. It doesn't teach anything in terms of basic rights of human beings regardless of their religion. Instead of people debating what the founders believe, they should put down what they actually did. They formatted documents repelling a single belief, something which is completely alien to Christian religion.
 
No. This nation was not founded upon any Christian principle. Christianity does not teach anything about democracy or representative republics. It doesn't teach anything in terms of basic rights of human beings regardless of their religion. Instead of people debating what the founders believe, they should put down what they actually did. They formatted documents repelling a single belief, something which is completely alien to Christian religion.

As usual, not a single source or fact. Just a lot of mouthfoaming.
 
No. This nation was not founded upon any Christian principle. Christianity does not teach anything about democracy or representative republics. It doesn't teach anything in terms of basic rights of human beings regardless of their religion. Instead of people debating what the founders believe, they should put down what they actually did. They formatted documents repelling a single belief, something which is completely alien to Christian religion.

You've never read one George Washington speech, Thomas Jefferson letter or Benjamin Rush quote, have you? Ever read any of the first 13 colonies' Constitutions? Ever taken a look at the architecture of that day?
 
well im going to stay on topic and answer the actual questions but, Well, which is it?

The thread title is "Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?"
The poll question is "Do you think the U.S. was intended to be a Christian Nation?"

As for the thread title the answer is yes and no, Our country was in fact founded with RELIGION period among other things. Religion of course influenced our laws, rights and constitution but wasn't the only factor.

As for the Poll question the answer is NO, absolutely not. To think other wise is nonsense, we are not a christian nation, never will be and we never intended to be. That would actually go against pretty much everything america stands for.
 
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No, it was intended to be a planned to be a diverse country with tolerance to all religions.
 
You've never read one George Washington speech, Thomas Jefferson letter or Benjamin Rush quote, have you?

Irrelevant.

Ever read any of the first 13 colonies' Constitutions?

Here is Virginia's. Show me which one of these is a 'Christian value'. Wait. Read this part:

Constitution of Virginia

No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

Within which 'Christian value' does the free exercise of religion fall?

Ever taken a look at the architecture of that day?

Irrelevant. "Western architecture" is derived from Roman and Muslim works which in turn came from the knowledge they'd gathered from conquered peoples. But please. Enlighten us. What about the architecture of the day?

But please, before you go off on your silly questioning and mouth foaming, why don't you explain to us which Christian values this country was founded upon? The equality of all men? It couldn't have been that considering how many of the founders were slave owners. Was it love for your neighbor? Which Christian values were used when drafting the Constitution? I'm dying to know.
 
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As usual, not a single source or fact. Just a lot of mouthfoaming.

Really? In which book of the bible can I find a reference to representative republics?
 
I dont think the US is a Christian nation, but todays social structure in the US does have its roots in Christianity, as does Europe.
 
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