View Poll Results: Do you think the U.S. was intended to be a Christian Nation?

Voters
180. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    44 24.44%
  • No

    118 65.56%
  • other

    18 10.00%
Page 7 of 45 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 446

Thread: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

  1. #61
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,968

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    GRRRRR....

    Incorrect uses of nation make Zyphlin frustratingly angry.

    We are in large part a Christian Nation, and were unquestionably one at the time of the founding.

    We are a wholly and completely Secular State, and have been since the founding.

    Whether or not the country was founded on Christian principles or morals is up for spirited debate. Most of the founding fathers, while perhaps espousing deist beliefs, were raised and had their morality shaped by Christianity. Many, such as Jefferson, even still attended Church and while he found that the Bible was not likely the work of the divine but of man still felt it was in general good morals to live by from what I understand. One could also make the argument that unquestionably the make up of the countries society and culture at that time, which was strikingly influenced by Christian principles due to the vast majority of the settlers that came over being of that religion, influenced the founding principles of which the country came into being. Still, an equally strong argument can be made that it's founding principles were completely areligious due to the many secularist philosophers that helped contribute to the inspiration of the founders. Its a back and forth thing.

    So to sum up...

    Nation = Christian
    State = Secular
    Founding Principles = Up for debate

  2. #62
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,968

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    "Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. "
    "Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."
    Thomas Jefferson
    I'm confused, are you supporting Mellie's post or not?

    From all I've read it is far more realistic and appropriate to label Jefferson as a Deist then as a Agnostic.

  3. #63
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,294

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I hear all the time that "this is a Christian Nation". Do you think this is so.

    I am going to go ahead and say anyone who truly thinks this country was meant to be a Christian nation is a complete moron. The founding fathers were secularist, there is some evidence indicating Thomas Jefferson was at least agnostic.

    " The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." -Thomas Jefferson
    You know that quote is total bull****, and that Jefferson never said it.
    The Christian god is a three headed monster - Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia

    The entire and sole purpose of this thread and all other threads like this, is to argue against the 1st Amendment and religious freedom. In my opinion, the people behind these debates hate religion, and want these beliefs subdued and eliminated from public view. These people do not understand Christianity in the slightest, and they don't make the same arguments against ANY other religion.

    Sir, I have to thank you for your pamphlets on the subject of Unitarianism, and to express my gratification with your efforts for the revival of primitive Christianity in your quarter. No historical fact is better established, than that the doctrine of one God, pure and uncompounded, was that of the early ages of Christianity; and was among the efficacious doctrines which gave it triumph over the polytheism of the ancients, sickened with the absurdities of their own theology. Nor was the unity of the Supreme Being ousted from the Christian creed by the force of reason, but by the sword of civil government, wielded at the will of the fanatic Athanasius. The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs. And a strong proof of the solidity of the primitive faith, is its restoration, as soon as a nation arises which vindicates to itself the freedom of religious opinion, and its external divorce from the civil authority. The pure and simple unity of the Creator of the universe, is now all but ascendant in the Eastern States; it is dawning in the West, and advancing towards the South; and I confidently expect that the present generation will see Unitarianism become the general religion of the United States. The Eastern presses are giving us many excellent pieces on the subject, and Priestley's learned writings on it are, or should be, in every hand. In fact, the Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three but one, is so incomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself. He proves, also, that man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.
    I write with freedom, because while I claim a right to believe in one God, if so my reason tells me, I yield as freely to others that of believing in three. Both religions, I find, make honest men, and that is the only point society has any right to look to. Although this mutual freedom should produce mutual indulgence, yet I wish not to be brought in question before the public on this or any other subject, and I pray you to consider me as writing under that trust. I take no part in controversies, religious or political. At the age of eighty, tranquility is the greatest good of life, and the strongest of our desires that of dying in the good will of all mankind. And with the assurance of all my good will to Unitarian and Trinitarian, to Whig and Tory, accept for yourself that of my entire respect. -- Jefferson's letter to Rev. James Smith, December 8, 1822.
    Jefferson wasn't arguing against religion or Christianity, but against the Trinity only. You are deceived by your blind belief that Christianity is the death of America, when it is the life that carried this country through hard times and gave it a central value that unified the nation. I get so sick of people who want to make Jefferson a deist or even an atheist, because it is total bull****. You want to believe in God or not, that's your business, but don't try to turn the greatest men in this nations history into lies, to deceive yourselves and others around you.

    Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
    14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
    15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
    16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    17 And lo a voice from heaven [the Father], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
    Here are the THREE, the Father, The Holy Spirit, and the Son...respectively. Are they One? It doesn't appear so here. So Jefferson is arguing that the concept of the Trinity is impossible and incomprehensible.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #64
    Professor
    Layla_Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last Seen
    05-31-17 @ 08:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,440
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm confused, are you supporting Mellie's post or not?

    From all I've read it is far more realistic and appropriate to label Jefferson as a Deist then as a Agnostic.
    No, I don't agree with Mellie. Mostly I was just posting some accurate Jefferson quotes because I thought they were interesting.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  5. #65
    Teacher of All Things


    Josie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    28,358

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    "Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. "
    "Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."
    Thomas Jefferson
    I love this Jefferson quote.

    I'm confused, though. Do you think Jefferson was agnostic?


  6. #66
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,294

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I love this Jefferson quote.

    I'm confused, though. Do you think Jefferson was agnostic?
    Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone.
    Yeah, he was an agnostic.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #67
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,158

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Jefferson wasn't arguing against religion or Christianity, but against the Trinity only. ...

    Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
    14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
    15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
    16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    17 And lo a voice from heaven [the Father], saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
    Here are the THREE, the Father, The Holy Spirit, and the Son...respectively. Are they One? It doesn't appear so here. So Jefferson is arguing that the concept of the Trinity is impossible and incomprehensible.
    .

    This is probably not the appropriate venue, but Jefferson isn't the first person to have difficulty envisioning or accepting the Trinity concept.

    I believe in it. Without going into a lot of detail, there are various clues in scripture that indicate that God is a being of greater complexity than Man (he told Moses no man could see Him in his entirety and live); I suspect that He is in fact, multi-dimensional (existing in 4 or more dimensions at once) and that three-dimensional humanity is only capable of interacting with a small "portion" of Him at one time.

    Imagine three interlocking circles in a triangular configuration. Each shares a portion of its volume with each of the others; near the middle there is a volume that all three circles share. Yet each circle also has a portion of its volume that is its own. I see this as the Trinity: each avatar, aspect or personality of the One exists and is distinct, but is also absolutely a portion of the One. We call these three faces, avatars, aspects or personalities the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but acknowlege that they are one omnipotent being.

    In the Old Testament, God interacted with the world primarily in the form of the Father, who is holiness and judgement. In the Gospels, he walked the earth among us, as one of us, in the person of the Son, who is mercy and forgiveness, atonement and redemption. After Pentecost, he gave each believer an internal link to the Holy Spirit, the Comforter and Guide.

    Actually I find it appropriate and reasonable that the nature of an Omniscient, Omnipotent and Eternal Creator should be complex and not easily understood by the mortal mind.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  8. #68
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,024

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    No. This nation was not founded upon any Christian principle. Christianity does not teach anything about democracy or representative republics. It doesn't teach anything in terms of basic rights of human beings regardless of their religion. Instead of people debating what the founders believe, they should put down what they actually did. They formatted documents repelling a single belief, something which is completely alien to Christian religion.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #69
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,294

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. This nation was not founded upon any Christian principle. Christianity does not teach anything about democracy or representative republics. It doesn't teach anything in terms of basic rights of human beings regardless of their religion. Instead of people debating what the founders believe, they should put down what they actually did. They formatted documents repelling a single belief, something which is completely alien to Christian religion.
    As usual, not a single source or fact. Just a lot of mouthfoaming.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #70
    Teacher of All Things


    Josie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    28,358

    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. This nation was not founded upon any Christian principle. Christianity does not teach anything about democracy or representative republics. It doesn't teach anything in terms of basic rights of human beings regardless of their religion. Instead of people debating what the founders believe, they should put down what they actually did. They formatted documents repelling a single belief, something which is completely alien to Christian religion.
    You've never read one George Washington speech, Thomas Jefferson letter or Benjamin Rush quote, have you? Ever read any of the first 13 colonies' Constitutions? Ever taken a look at the architecture of that day?


Page 7 of 45 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •