View Poll Results: Do you think the U.S. was intended to be a Christian Nation?

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    44 24.44%
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    118 65.56%
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Thread: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

  1. #341
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    And how are rights created?
    they are inherent to the human condition. you might as well ask how the sex drive is created.

    "Rights" are a human construct about what freedoms and actions a person is allowed within a society. They are nothing more than a personal or group opinion that are sometimes codified.

    Even if your favored god does exist, he is unwilling or unable to ensure the exercise of his preferred rights. At the very most he has informed you of what freedoms and actions (rights) he finds acceptable within a society.
    i recognize the right of free speech. i don't spend all my time rushing about the nation looking for statutes that violate it so that i can spend my every waking moment fighting them. and does it surprise you that God would consider acting with responsibility an improvement?

    but at least we've gotten past the silly "if a right can be violated then you never had it" argument.

  2. #342
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    they are inherent to the human condition. you might as well ask how the sex drive is created.
    then what of pedophiles who claim the have the right to make love with children?

    1) Does that right "exist"?
    2) Do you recognize it?
    3) What rights are inherent to the "human condition" and which aren't? How do you make such a determination?

    My answers:
    1 and 2) Yes, the right exists to the pedophiles. I do not recognize or advocate for such a right. I understand that some pedophiles believe to have such a right.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i recognize the right of free speech.
    how did you come to recognize that as a right as opposed to "not-a-right"?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    does it surprise you that God would consider acting with responsibility an improvement?
    So you acknowledge that god is unwilling or unable to guarantee the exercise of rights whether they be man-made or god-made?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  3. #343
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    then what of pedophiles who claim the have the right to make love with children?
    i'd say that they are incorrect; which answers your first two questions. as to your third, it's a good one, and I'll admit, I don't have as solid an answer for you as I would like. Until i have a better I'm going to stick with the combined experience of centuries of our brightest minds and souls who have dedicated themselves to just these questions (it was Jesus, for example, who first enunciated the concept of seperation of Church and State). that seems a fairly safe place to start to build from.

    So you acknowledge that god is unwilling or unable to guarantee the exercise of rights whether they be man-made or god-made?
    I acknowledge freely and always that God has granted humankind free will, which includes the freedom to make evil choices, which includes evil choices that harm our fellow man and violate his or her rights.

  4. #344
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you are confusing practice of a right with having the right itself. I, for example, have the right to bear arms irrespective of whether or not i choose to do so.
    Not if you go by the original second amendment... The right to bear arms only applies to militias, and you're an individual. Here, read it again...

    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    ricksfolly

  5. #345
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Not if you go by the original second amendment... The right to bear arms only applies to militias, and you're an individual. Here, read it again...

    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    ricksfolly
    Gun Control - News - Times Topics - The New York Times

  6. #346
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i'd say that they are incorrect; which answers your first two questions.
    No it doesn't. And I can't help but to think you are being purposely disingenuous but I'll withhold that belief pending your next post in case I'm hastily reading into things.

    My questions were:
    1) Does that right "exist"?
    2) Do you recognize it?

    Answering how you did does NOT answer the question but appears to be dodging the questions.

    Here are some reasonable answers:
    1a) The right does not exist and here is why...
    1b) the right does exist.
    2a) I do not recognize that right because ...
    2b) I recognize that right.

    Notice how your response isn't an answer at all. Can you try to answer the questions directly this time?


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    as to your third, it's a good one, and I'll admit, I don't have as solid an answer for you as I would like. Until i have a better I'm going to stick with the combined experience of centuries of our brightest minds and souls who have dedicated themselves to just these questions (it was Jesus, for example, who first enunciated the concept of seperation of Church and State). that seems a fairly safe place to start to build from.
    I don't see the relevance between the separation of church and state and my 3rd question.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So you acknowledge that god is unwilling or unable to guarantee the exercise of rights whether they be man-made or god-made?
    I acknowledge freely and always that God has granted humankind free will, which includes the freedom to make evil choices, which includes evil choices that harm our fellow man and violate his or her rights.
    Ahh I see.

    So you distinguish between two types of rights?
    1) God declared rights
    2) Man declared rights

    And I presume that you believe:
    1) The rights you believe exist coincide with "god declared rights" 2) other rights are wrong or non-existant
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  7. #347
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_H View Post
    Most of them who were religious were deists, and the country isn't based on christian morals at all. Most of the laws that coincide with the ten commandments are cultural universals and have been seen almost everywhere, but the first four would require a theocracy. You're wrong, organized has done more harm than good here and it doesn't appear that it will stop anytime soon.
    That's fine with me buddy, because you are still admitting that God made the Universe and THIS country.....AND NOT EVOLUTION.

    Thank you for playing, you fail.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  8. #348
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's fine with me buddy, because you are still admitting that God made the Universe and THIS country.....AND NOT EVOLUTION.

    Thank you for playing, you fail.
    A person can believe in God and evolution. They are not mutually exclusive.

    A person can also believe that God made the universe and still not believe in any particular religion.

    How come some people believe that it has to be one or the other? It doesn't. To be a member of a particular religion, most of the time, it means believing that God did certain things that contradict science. However, a person does not have to prescribe to any religion to believe in God. And the concept of God doesn't exactly contradict science (depending on a person's view of what God is and what He can do/does do), just some of the events that certain religions attribute to God do.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #349
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    No it doesn't. And I can't help but to think you are being purposely disingenuous but I'll withhold that belief pending your next post in case I'm hastily reading into things
    i think you are. specifically my answers are:

    1) Does that right "exist"?
    no, having sex with children is not an inalienable right.

    2) Do you recognize it?
    as it does not exist i do not.

    Answering how you did does NOT answer the question but appears to be dodging the questions.
    i would say that pointing out that those who say there is a right to do so are wrong answers the first and by extension the second. if they are wrong to say there is a right, then logically there is not, ergo i do not recognize that which i claim does not exist.
    I don't see the relevance between the separation of church and state and my 3rd question.
    i was merely pointing out the depth, range, and history of the one metric i had decided to begin with.

    Ahh I see.

    So you distinguish between two types of rights?
    1) God declared rights
    2) Man declared rights

    And I presume that you believe:
    1) The rights you believe exist coincide with "god declared rights" 2) other rights are wrong or non-existant
    i would say that there are inalienable rights given by God to man, and that these are few and general; and that man recently has begun fraily and weakly to attempt to create his own both within and in conjunction with those.

    so, for example, if God has granted mankind the inalienable ability to think for himself, decide matters of right and wrong, and publicly defend them (free speech), it is mankind who has said 'and that means we have the right to say whatever we wish in a newspaper, but not to dance naked in the public streets'.

  10. #350
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    Re: Do you think this country was founded upon Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    A person can believe in God and evolution. They are not mutually exclusive.
    C.S. Lewis is the example I always go with here, of a man who believed in the reality of both. frankly i think the scientific account reinforces the biblical one rather than detracting from it.

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