View Poll Results: What force does the American Empire have on the world?

Voters
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  • Wholly Benevolent

    3 6.25%
  • Rather Benevolent

    15 31.25%
  • Hardly Benevolent

    5 10.42%
  • Not one way or the other

    2 4.17%
  • Slightly Malevolent

    3 6.25%
  • Malevolent

    3 6.25%
  • Very Malevolent

    3 6.25%
  • America is not an Empire

    14 29.17%
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Thread: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Man, seriously, read my whole comment. I know you have some political plugs and scores to settle but I have ad nausem said IN A DISTINCTLY AMERICAN SENSE of Empire, as reflected by Thomas Jefferson's landmark words the "Empire of Liberty".



    Our armies do not come into your cities and lands as conquerors or enemies, but as liberators. ... It is [not] the wish of [our] government to impose upon you alien institutions. ... [It is our wish] that you should prosper even as in the past, when your lands were fertile, when your ancestors gave to the world literature, science, and art, and when Baghdad city was one of the wonders of the world. ... It is [our] hope that the aspirations of your philosophers and writers shall be realized and that once again the people of Baghdad shall flourish, enjoying their wealth and substance under institutions which are in consonance with their sacred laws and their racial ideals.

    -- General F. S. Maude to the people of Mesopotamia, March 19, 1917

    The government of Iraq, and the future of your country, will soon belong to you. ... We will end a brutal regime ... so that Iraqis can live in security. We will respect your great religious traditions, whose principles of equality and compassion are essential to Iraq's future. We will help you build a peaceful and representative government that protects the rights of all citizens. And then our military forces will leave. Iraq will go forward as a unified, independent, and sovereign nation that has regained a respected place in the world. You are a good and gifted people -- the heirs of a great civilization that contributes to all humanity.

    -- President George W. Bush to the people of Iraq, April 4, 2003
    The difference is that the British set up a puppet king while the U.S. allowed the people of Iraq to choose their own leadership.

  2. #12
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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    Britain established a home state in Iraq just as the United States did. Regardless, Paul Bremer ruled Iraq for more than a year before any kind of Iraqi government was put into power, and even then it was not by appointement from US leaders themselves and not free Iraqi election. You're fighting a semantic battle really, and I could care less for semantics. I support the American Empire, as well as America's Republic, as I presume you do. Fighting with me is fruitless since I'm sure we can agree on many issues.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
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  3. #13
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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Britain established a home state in Iraq just as the United States did. Regardless, Paul Bremer ruled Iraq for more than a year before any kind of Iraqi government was put into power, and even then it was not by appointement from US leaders themselves and not free Iraqi election. You're fighting a semantic battle really, and I could care less for semantics. I support the American Empire, as well as America's Republic, as I presume you do. Fighting with me is fruitless since I'm sure we can agree on many issues.
    The current government of Iraq was elected, setting up a temporary transitional government is not the same thing as setting up a permanent puppet monarchy.

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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    Except the permanent puppet monarchy was not at all "permanent". The British always stated their intent to leave eventually, they simply were more clear about their control for a number of years. Iraq was an Imperialist mission as was the Philipinnes: we invaded countries and established governments to our liking. The Athenians did the essentially the same thing on the Greek peninsula against city-states, they just didn't have any reservations about the old word "Empire."

    Let me reiterate that our Empire is DISTINCTLY AMERICAN, as Romans were distinctly Romans and Greeks were distinctly Greeks, though America's Empire does contain elements of all of the former, as well as things borrowed from the British. That doesn't mean our Empire is going to be a mirror of one or the other for the simple reason THAT WE ARE A DIFFERENT NATION. Cherry picking facts is intellectually dishonest, especially since you're just subtracting the argument to a semantics game.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Except the permanent puppet monarchy was not at all "permanent". The British always stated their intent to leave eventually, they simply were more clear about their control for a number of years. Iraq was an Imperialist mission as was the Philipinnes: we invaded countries and established governments to our liking. The Athenians did the essentially the same thing on the Greek peninsula against city-states, they just didn't have any reservations about the old word "Empire."

    Let me reiterate that our Empire is DISTINCTLY AMERICAN, as Romans were distinctly Romans and Greeks were distinctly Greeks, though America's Empire does contain elements of all of the former, as well as things borrowed from the British. That doesn't mean our Empire is going to be a mirror of one or the other for the simple reason THAT WE ARE A DIFFERENT NATION. Cherry picking facts is intellectually dishonest, especially since you're just subtracting the argument to a semantics game.
    America is not an empire in any sense. Our troops stationed overseas are not occupiers, they are there in every case with the consent of the host government. America's foreign policy is in place to protect Americas interest and has made great strides in stabilizing areas of the world that have been inherently unstable. World stability is obviously in America's best interest. During the cold war, our attempt to stop the spread of communism led to supporting some less than ideal governments. Since the end of the cold war, we've been focused on spreading democracy. America should continue this course of action. The time of monarchies and dictatorships has ended. Pursuing the spread of democracy is the only path to world peace.

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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    1. It is not an Empire.

    2. It is the most benevolent Super Power the world has ever seen.

    Had we not been:

    Germany would be speaking English.
    Italians would be speaking English.
    France would be speaking English.

    As first languages.

    We would never have helped rebuild Japan and Europe.
    We would have taken over the Middle East totally. What would have stopped us? Camel dung?

    We would have bombed the hell our of the USSR post WWII before they had nukes and were still sharing weapons.

    The world is very, very lucky America is benevolent.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 06-19-10 at 08:31 AM.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    hegemony.


    Just in case people wanted to refer to a term that is not so wildly misleading.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  8. #18
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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    narcissistic home populace
    Can you explain this please? I'm not sure how you mean this in regard to citizens.
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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    There is, of course, NO American empire....these are a thing of the past, and we do not have the taste for this, at least most of us.
    Usually we try to be benevolent, strange how these attempts are not always appreciated...Many people simply are not ready for this..

  10. #20
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    Re: Is the American Empire a Benevolent force for the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    The other day I was talking about the decline of the American Empire(ie trillions dollar deficit, weakened global military apparatus, narcissistic home populace) and the implications, as well as consequences, its collapse would have on the world. I was talking about what a horrible effect that could plausibly have on the world when my friend responded that it would likely be good, highlighting the end of British Imperialism as a triumph for humanity. Really? Has humanity really benefited through the ages from the demise of Western empires like ancient Greece, Rome, and Imperial Britain? I mean, many nations may have achieved their autonomy from Empire's ending, but historically have in turn begotten horrible poverty because of their immature and weak economic institutions... not to mention the often volatile and anarchic political situations. It seems like academia has waged a war against Imperialism for over a century, but when we look at nations like India and China, what is the bright beacon of light in otherwise dark circumstances? To me, it is quite clearly the liberal, secular influence of the West(which has much more influence in India than in terms of China.)

    Now, I don't mean to be beating the drums too much, and I understand as well as recognize the cost both in lives and treasure Imperialism has on the home nation, not to mention the often negative cultural and social affects it brings on the victim country. I also don't want to come off as arrogant, nor do I want to disregard the fruits of free trade and the fact that some influence is natural so exerting by way of arms is unnecessary.

    I foresee responses that highlight the usual points of Imperialism=Bad in general, but I'm more curious about people's ACTUAL perception of America's global military apparatus, instead of some philosophical discussion of Imperialism's moral implications(Whether good or bad). What is concrete evidence that America is a malevolent force in the world? Has the Democratic peace theory not largely succeeded, thanks largely to Western nations? Do countless nations not live off American aid and/or under the shadow of her tree of liberty(heh), allowing the US military to fight wars that their militaries would otherwise be forced to partake in?

    (Note: Keep in mind when I talk of America as an Empire I mean in a distinctly American sense of the term, as used by Thomas Jefferson when he wrote about the "Empire of Liberty" that would be America.)
    Leads to a repeat of 1939-1945 but on a much larger scale.

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