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Is the USA skrewed?

Is the USA skrewed?

  • yes

    Votes: 10 37.0%

  • no

    Votes: 17 63.0%
  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Kandahar said:
You seem to be under the impression that busts are the natural state of affairs, and booms are just illusions. This is not correct. They are both just deviations from the average, which is a modest increase in economic growth over time.
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What you don't seem to understand is the housing boom was not a naturally occurring economic phenomenon, but was artificially created to stimulate the economy. To pull us out of recession. In doing so, it has destroyed the very foundation of the free market system. What kept us from falling into a depression worst than the Great Depression was the FDIC, government spending(debt), unemployment insurance and credit cards. We have no more ammo left. Interest rates can not go any lower, debt can only go so deep and we have lost the very things that built this country......our world dominance in manufacturing and innovation (led by the baby boomers). We really are screwed. This is not just another economic cycle and things won't get better just because they always have before. Things will get worse. Our biggest problems are in the future.
 
Tubub said:
40 years ago your generation was protesting the Vietnam war and has simply traded the "I'll burn my draft card" signs for the "I won't pay my taxes" ones. Don't get wrong, there were many that served honorably in Vietnam, but the prime heroes to come out of that war(Colin Powell, Join McCain, David Hackworth) were not Baby Boomers, and they were lost among a sea of narcissistic cowards anyway. It's very telling that the two presidents of that generation were draft dodgers. Sorry, but this nation needs to move on.
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It's a cop out to blame all boomers for our problems. Most boomers served their country, worked hard, raised families, paid their taxes and built this country into the most prosperous nation in the world. You do know that over 3 million boomers served in Vietnam, don't you?
 
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I've seen so many crises come and go (and never turn out to be as bad as hyped) that I have trouble getting overly excited about the latest scare.

We'll manage.
 
Goshin said:
I've seen so many crises come and go (and never turn out to be as bad as hyped) that I have trouble getting overly excited about the latest scare.

We'll manage.
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Have you ever seen debt like this before? Have you ever seen zero percent interest rates before? Have you ever seen economic collapses on a global scale before? Have you ever seen the number of foreclosure like this before? Have you ever seen the loss of jobs to other countries like this before? Have you ever been so dependant on foriegn oil before? Have you ever seen so many people getting close to retirement age before? Have you ever seen the market lose 50% of it's value before? Have you ever seen us having to pay for two wars at the same time before?

If you start looking at all the variables, we have never been in this position before and it would take a miracle to pull us out of it. Sure the country will survive, the rich will still be rich, but the quality of life for most Americans will take a drastic turn for the worse.
 
Only if we let hysteria guide our actions going forward.
 
USA-1 said:
Have you ever seen debt like this before? Have you ever seen zero percent interest rates before? Have you ever seen economic collapses on a global scale before? Have you ever seen the number of foreclosure like this before? Have you ever seen the loss of jobs to other countries like this before? Have you ever been so dependant on foriegn oil before? Have you ever seen so many people getting close to retirement age before? Have you ever seen the market lose 50% of it's value before? Have you ever seen us having to pay for two wars at the same time before?

If you start looking at all the variables, we have never been in this position before and it would take a miracle to pull us out of it. Sure the country will survive, the rich will still be rich, but the quality of life for most Americans will take a drastic turn for the worse.
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Yes, I remember Carter and the 70's. :mrgreen:
 
Goshin said:
Yes, I remember Carter and the 70's. :mrgreen:
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And the runaway inflation he inherited from the Republicans? Or do you have a selective memory?


There was no recession during the Carter years. GDP grew every year. Wages did keep up with inflation. People were buying homes even with 12% mortgages, They weren't losing them. Gas prices shot up, only for a short while, but gas prices skyrocketed under Nixon too. Remember the first Arab oil embargo? Unemployment was worse under Reagan. The Carter years were blown way out of proportion by the republican spin machine. The same one the made Reagan out to be some kind of hero.
You should always seek the truth, not what they want you to believe.
 
Gipper said:
Easily. If you're asking if we'll ever make it back to Clinton levels, I'm not sure. But quit painting this a doomsday scenario. Business cycles do exist, you know...unless you're one of those Marxists.
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The biggest problem with Socialists who ostensibly want the best of everything for everyone, is that they forget who actually winds up paying for all the largesse they spread around.

With Communists, they know who pays for it and they do not care, woe betide anyone who speaks differently.

All the time that the USA is bound by chains we shall languish in the doldrums, our power, such as it is will dwindle ever more away.

Remove the chains and it is possible for the US to recover, once more to be respected throughout the world.

Keep the chains and the US will become much like any other supplicant 3rd world Country.
 
USA-1 said:
And the runaway inflation he inherited from the Republicans? Or do you have a selective memory?


There was no recession during the Carter years. GDP grew every year. Wages did keep up with inflation. People were buying homes even with 12% mortgages, They weren't losing them. Gas prices shot up, only for a short while, but gas prices skyrocketed under Nixon too. Remember the first Arab oil embargo? Unemployment was worse under Reagan. The Carter years were blown way out of proportion by the republican spin machine. The same one the made Reagan out to be some kind of hero.
You should always seek the truth, not what they want you to believe.
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Carter was a dolt and what he did to Olympians who wanted to compete under the IOC flag (as the Brits did) should have caused him to be impeached and sued into the poor house. Perception is important-many people Lionize John Kennedy not because he actually did much of anything but because he inspired people. Carter was the anti Kennedy. He caused a perception of Malaise
 
TurtleDude said:
Carter was a dolt and what he did to Olympians who wanted to compete under the IOC flag (as the Brits did) should have caused him to be impeached and sued into the poor house. Perception is important-many people Lionize John Kennedy not because he actually did much of anything but because he inspired people. Carter was the anti Kennedy. He caused a perception of Malaise
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You're pissed at Carter because of the Olympics? Laugh my ass off. You need to get a life.
 
TurtleDude said:
Carter was a dolt and what he did to Olympians who wanted to compete under the IOC flag (as the Brits did) should have caused him to be impeached and sued into the poor house. Perception is important-many people Lionize John Kennedy not because he actually did much of anything but because he inspired people. Carter was the anti Kennedy. He caused a perception of Malaise
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He did raise a decent point, which is that Carter, while by no means a bad president, does get unfairly blamed for problems that where not his. It was not Carter that caused the ungodly economy we suffered through during his administration, though Carter did nothing to solve the problem either. Thankfully, the economy does cycle, and by the time Reagan took office(some one who is unduly enshrined) things did reach far enough into recovery that things did get better.

On Kennedy: I have said this before, but I think a large part of the strong positive reaction Kennedy receives is due to his being assassinated in office. It was a strong shock to America, and turned him into something of a martyr. His approval numbers while in office where good, but not particularly exceptional.
 
USA-1 said:
And the runaway inflation he inherited from the Republicans? Or do you have a selective memory?


There was no recession during the Carter years. GDP grew every year. Wages did keep up with inflation. People were buying homes even with 12% mortgages, They weren't losing them. Gas prices shot up, only for a short while, but gas prices skyrocketed under Nixon too. Remember the first Arab oil embargo? Unemployment was worse under Reagan. The Carter years were blown way out of proportion by the republican spin machine. The same one the made Reagan out to be some kind of hero.
You should always seek the truth, not what they want you to believe.
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Say what you like bud, I was there, and things were bad.

On top of that my parents went through the Great Depression, and I grew up hearing about how that was. I don't scare easy.
 
Goshin said:
Say what you like bud, I was there, and things were bad.

On top of that my parents went through the Great Depression, and I grew up hearing about how that was. I don't scare easy.
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I was there too. Tell me what was so bad about it for you? High gas prices? High interest rates? Wow. Reagans first term was worse.

The truth is painful for right wingers, but Carter's term really was not as bad as they would like you to believe. There was no long term unemployment. No foreclosures and no banks failures. Jobs were not lost overseas. It got slow for a few months but GDP always grew. Big deal.
 
Thanks to parents who did it all wrong I had a perfectly goog example of how NOT to do things....
A little paranoia goes a long way, and I learned early to be careful trusting others. There is only one person truly interested in your personal economics, and that is YOU. Everybody else is just looking to use your money to "earn" an income for themselves....
I was carefull who I married, to avoid getting a wife like my mother was, who was not to be trusted with anything more than a household budget and allowance.
I got training (thank you Uncle Sam) so I wouldn't be like my dad who at age 38 discovered it is hard to support a wife and 5 kids on a nightwatchmans income.
The wife and I educated ourselves past what our job requirements dictated, earned good incomes, spent only half of it, saved and invested the rest. We lost money on every "bust" from Enron on, but over all made more good decisions than bad. We are well off now, and spending money to help stimulate the local economy.
We had friends who didn't have our paranoia, and didn't want any advice from us. Many of those friends earned good incomes, but spent all of it and more.

The govt isn't the only entity that we can blame for this mess...
 
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USA-1 said:
It's a cop out to blame all boomers for our problems. Most boomers served their country, worked hard, raised families, paid their taxes and built this country into the most prosperous nation in the world. You do know that over 3 million boomers served in Vietnam, don't you?
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I didn't blame the Baby Boomers for ALL our problems.... just the majority of them. You did not build this country into the most prosperous nation in the world, the previous generations, especially the so-called "G.I." generation born 1902-1924, did. Most Baby Boomers did not serve their country, though, as I have said, some honorably did. But, not surprisingly, the hallmark Baby Boomers that came out of that service(John Kerry, Oliver Stone) derided their service and the effort they participated in. On the other hand, those who served honorably and supported the effort were not Baby Boomers. Again, I'm sure there are people that don't befit the quintessential Baby Boomer... but that's not what defines generations.

And, no offense, I really don't think you should tread water into the family values arena in respect to Baby Boomers when Baby Boomers have 3x the divorce rate comparative to their parent generation.

Why Baby Boomers Suck! « Rant Vent Rant
 
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At 64, conceived shortly after the big war ended, I am among the first of the baby boomers. Most of us males faced the draft. The "draft lottery" came too late for us.
IMO, the draft was a great equalizer. The poor and the well off were thrown together under the same living conditions. For some of us, it was a step or 2 up, for others, a step or 2 back.
Until the young of this and other nations learn what it is to serve, voluntarily or otherwise, we will continue to owe the greatest of debt to the generation that preceded me. Freedom isn't free, and most of us have done damn little to deserve it.
 
Redress said:
It was not Carter that caused the ungodly economy we suffered through during his administration, though Carter did nothing to solve the problem either. .
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Actually he did. He hire Paul Volker who raised interest rates breaking the back of inflation. There was a reason interest rates were so high during that period. Sometimes we have to suffer a bit before things can get better. The economy can not recover overnight. It takes time.
There was no recession during Carters term. GDP grew every year. Inflation was the biggest problem and he inherited that from Nixon/Ford. Remember Nixon's infamous wage and price freeze? So much for republican free markets.
 
UtahBill said:
At 64, conceived shortly after the big war ended, I am among the first of the baby boomers. Most of us males faced the draft. The "draft lottery" came too late for us.
IMO, the draft was a great equalizer. The poor and the well off were thrown together under the same living conditions. For some of us, it was a step or 2 up, for others, a step or 2 back.
Until the young of this and other nations learn what it is to serve, voluntarily or otherwise, we will continue to owe the greatest of debt to the generation that preceded me. Freedom isn't free, and most of us have done damn little to deserve it.
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Actually those that live good lives, work hard, pay their taxes and contribute to society instead of relying on it to take care of them do deserve freedom. It's not just about fighting in a war. Many people never got the opportunity even though they would answer the call if our country was in danger.
 
USA-1 said:
This isn't a business cycle. They destroyed the housing sector by manipulating demand. They sent manufacturing jobs overseas. We are dependant on other countries for our energy. We are buried in debt. It will be decades before we recover, if we ever do. The best times most likely are behind us.

Greed has destroyed this country.
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This line made me pause.

I would be interested in how you define greed.
 
Goobieman said:
Yes there was. 2nd 1980 and 3rd 1980 were quarters of negative growth, -7.9% and -0.7%, respectively.
U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis
Table 1.1.1


Perhaps, but:
-That doesnt mean there was no recession that year;
-By that standard, there was no recession under GWB.
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Presidents And Prosperity - Forbes.com

The Ford and Carter years (1974-1981) are widely recalled as a time of economic disaster. But by the numbers they were middling, not awful. Most surprising is that Carter ranks first in job creation as 10 million jobs were added during his four years in office, more on an annualized basis than Clinton or Reagan. But because the labor force was expanding at the same time, led by an increasing number of women working outside the home, the rate of unemployment barely budged. Gerald R. Ford ranks first for controlling inflation, cutting 3.4% off the rate during his brief two-and-a-half-year term.
 
Chuz Life said:
Greed is,...

What?

Anything?
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Doing anything for money. For example, cutting corners to produce oil quicker to make more money and ignoring the risk.
 
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