View Poll Results: Marriages without children should be dissolved

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  • Agreed, dissolve them!

    2 3.23%
  • Disagree, marriage ain't just about children

    60 96.77%
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Thread: Marriages without children should be dissolved

  1. #81
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    It appears to me that a lot of people are looking at this aspect of the issue back-asswards.

    The government is charged with making laws and such (article 1, Section 8) as it sees fit for the "general welfare" needs of the nation.

    When the government (or anyone) objectively looks at the idea of "marriage" which one naturally comes to mind as the union that best suits the 'general welfare' needs for the nation?

    I suibmit that it's the "one man one woman" union that GENERALLY benefits the nation most.

    The government, interested ONLY in the general welfare aspect,... is not charged with validating or recognizing anything more than what is fitting for our "general welfare."

    In general,... from the governments perspective,... "marriage" is about the nucleus of a family, families (generally speaking) are for making and rearing children. The family model which naturally provides them (children) with a male and female role model,... which by extension forms our societies,... etc?

    One man one woman.

    It's not a "requirment" that a marriage is for the creating of children.

    It's a recognition.

    Oh my, one minute the religious right doesn't want the government anywhere near their lives and the next they want them deciding what marriage should or should not be. It's a wonder they don't get confused their positions change so much. I also don't accept your suibition(sic) that a man/woman marriage is best. I don't believe that the loving stable marriage of a man and a woman is inherently better than the loving stable marriage of two men or two women. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce I don't think straight people have been doing such a great job of marriage. With all the kids in foster care I don't think straight people have been doing such a great job raising kids.
    Last edited by Layla_Z; 06-20-10 at 01:34 AM.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Here's what I think about gay marriage. NO. Marriage is a religious institution between a man and a woman. There is not a single religion in the world that recognises anything else. If you want a secular civil union then fine, go right ahead. But to call it a marriage it must be religiously based. There is a point to be made for making the religious ceremony separate from the secular contractual benefits however.
    You could make them have a secular contract for both types and then simply not recognise marriage in the law at all.
    This is where that whole "separation of church and state " breaks down completely.
    What a mess that would be to make divorces a completely church oriented thing. No government involvement at all.

    Liberals live their lives in fear, clinging to their bongs, welfare checks and JFK photos singing Kumbaya and dreaming of rainbows

  3. #83
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by theunbubba View Post
    Here's what I think about gay marriage. NO. Marriage is a religious institution between a man and a woman.
    Come again? Islam recognizes Polygamy and Mormonism did for quite some time. Further Paganism had for thousands of years recognized same sex Hand Fasting which is their equivalent of marriage.

    There is not a single religion in the world that recognises anything else.
    See above.

    If you want a secular civil union then fine, go right ahead. But to call it a marriage it must be religiously based.
    So why is the law code devoid of religious requirements then?

    There is a point to be made for making the religious ceremony separate from the secular contractual benefits however.
    Which would be the best option entirely. No Government Marriage.

    You could make them have a secular contract for both types and then simply not recognise marriage in the law at all.
    Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner!

    This is where that whole "separation of church and state " breaks down completely.
    What a mess that would be to make divorces a completely church oriented thing. No government involvement at all.
    Not at all. In the eyes of the legal contract, you have no civil union. What you call marriage is up to you to decide after and since there are no legal rights to a religious marriage, no problems with its seperation from the state.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    History is full of enough data to support just about anyones claim of anything.

    History is in many cases somewhat subjective and open to interpretation.

    But when you start with a blank sheet of paper,.... then read article 1, section 8.... and you consider what form of marriage best fills the criteria for the "general welfare" needs of the nation,... you will inevitably have to rule the one man one woman relationship as number one and every other 'union' or relationship comes up short.

    "I'm jest sayin"
    That's an ignorant generalization. I mean, a "one man, one woman couple" who are unemployed, mooch off of welfare, and have an obsese 13-year old teen who plays video games and eats cheetos 8 hours a day don't really help the "general welfare" of the population as much as, say, a single gay person who works long hours at a center for abused children and volunteers in their spare time.

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by theunbubba View Post
    Here's what I think about gay marriage. NO. Marriage is a religious institution
    Throughout most of history it's been a legal or political insitution, not a religious one.

    between a man and a woman.
    Not true. Many nations recognize same sex couples as married. And for that matter, it was originally a polygamical institution, not a monogamous one.

    There is not a single religion in the world that recognises anything else.
    Not true. Plenty of religions recognized poligamy (some also recognized women having more than one husband).

    [/quote]
    If you want a secular civil union then fine, go right ahead. But to call it a marriage it must be religiously based.
    [/quote]
    Uh uh.

    There is a point to be made for making the religious ceremony separate from the secular contractual benefits however.
    You could make them have a secular contract for both types and then simply not recognise marriage in the law at all.
    This is where that whole "separation of church and state " breaks down completely.
    What a mess that would be to make divorces a completely church oriented thing. No government involvement at all.
    Legal marriage isn't even the same thing as as "wedding ceremony", and modern wedding ceremonies didn't exist for most of history (and still don't in most of the world).

  6. #86
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    Hiding the real reasons for their bigotry behind smokescreens, is something "conservatives," especially the "religious" variety do as second nature.
    Where would you like to draw the line after this one is moved?
    And would you not be a bigot for denying anyone the ability to be married?

    So, may I call you bigot? Surely there is a line you don't want crossed.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 06-20-10 at 04:58 AM.
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Where would you like to draw the line after this one is moved?
    And would you not be a bigot for denying anyone the ability to be married?

    So, may I call you bigot? Surely there is a line you don't want crossed.

    .
    Ahh yes...

    .. the old "slippery slope" logical falicy argument.

    Fail.

    Honestly, I really don't worry much about what you do or don't "call me."

  8. #88
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Forgive me if this point has already been brought up, but what does it matter HOW the children were conceived or who the biological parents are? Who cares how the children being raised by homosexual couples came to be? What really matters, what SHOULD really matter to anyone who cares about children's welfare and society's welfare is how children are being raised, not how they're being conceived. Many studies have shown that children thrive in a home with two parents who are married to each other, regardless of the parents' gender, sexual orientation or biological link to the child.

    Therefore, denying homosexual couples the right to marry for the sole reason that they can't biologically produce offspring makes no sense at all. They are as capable as any heterosexual couple of raising a happy, productive member of society. How that child came to be in their household should be the least of society's concern. What matters is that these children have a stable home environment, recognized, validated and protected by law.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Forgive me if this point has already been brought up, but what does it matter HOW the children were conceived or who the biological parents are? Who cares how the children being raised by homosexual couples came to be?
    Yes, exactly.
    When it comes to heterosexual couples, it's sort of taboo to mention "how they got" their children: whether it was through adoption, whether they needed fertility treatments in order to conceive them, etc.
    It would certainly be in poor taste to imply that they were less of a family because they acquired their children via some means other than just screwing.

    How children arrive in a family is the very least important part of what it means to be a family.
    Or at least, that's the party line when it comes to heterosexuals.

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Oh my, one minute the religious right doesn't want the government anywhere near their lives and the next they want them deciding what marriage should or should not be. It's a wonder they don't get confused their positions change so much. I also don't accept your suibition(sic) that a man/woman marriage is best. I don't believe that the loving stable marriage of a man and a woman is inherently better than the loving stable marriage of two men or two women. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce I don't think straight people have been doing such a great job of marriage. With all the kids in foster care I don't think straight people have been doing such a great job raising kids.
    1: Show me where I said one ****ing thing about religion

    2: Show me a 'merital' relationship between anything other than one man and one woman that best fits the 'general' welfare needs of the nation and provides for the child both a male and a female role model.

    As far as the divorce rates and all the other noise about it,.... I don't think you understand the differences between making policy and laws based on an "ideal" as opposed to an "idea."

    The "ideal" for the general welfare needs of the nation,... is that familys (the basic unit of a society) have a solid nucleus, a means of reproducing itself (much like an organism) and a self contained model that can be followed for generations to come.

    The one man one woman marriage fits that template.

    Religion doesn't have a ****ing thing to do with it.

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