View Poll Results: Marriages without children should be dissolved

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  • Agreed, dissolve them!

    2 3.23%
  • Disagree, marriage ain't just about children

    60 96.77%
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Thread: Marriages without children should be dissolved

  1. #31
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    We have been over this ground Goshin. Many gay couples are the parents of one or more kids already. Further, the means exists for gay couples to have children.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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  2. #32
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The fundamental point remains. The primary societal reason for encouraging marriage is for the purpose of producing and bringing up children. Straight marriages fulfill this function in the vast majority of cases without the need for outside intervention. Gay marriage is incapable by its very nature of producing children without outside intervention. This is simply fact. SSM does not fit the historical function and definition of marriage. Making same-sex unions into legal marriages involves changing that definition, not simply "ceasing to deny access".
    According to who is that the primary societal reason for encouraging marriage?

    And even if it were the primary reason, can I just ask why people make such a big deal about the "intervention of a third party" for procreation? Whether the children are being produced by male-female sex, through a surrogate, with a sperm donor, etc., the bottom line is they are being produced and raised by same-sex couples (and opposite-sex couples for that matter; the intervention of a third party doesn't make their marriage or their children any less valid than those produced by sex, because the exact way in which they were conceived is irrelevant). And the legal rights and responsibilities given by civil marriage encourage children to be produced by same-sex and opposite-sex married couples alike. So if that's the primary reason, encouraging the production and rearing of children, then same-sex marriage is fulfilling that primary reason. So why exactly are you using that as an argument against it? Allowing same-sex couples to marry certainly doesn't discourage them from producing and raising children!

    Relying on remote ideas like the general nature of opposite-sex couples to procreate most of the time is irrelevant. Why does the general nature even matter? The concrete reality is that same-sex marriages have resulted in children with the intervention of a third party and opposite-sex marriages have resulted in children with the intervention of a third party. There is no reason to distinguish between them under the law. They have both encouraged the same result, which you cite as the primary societal reason for marriage, so what's the problem? That sounds like a good thing for society to me.
    Last edited by sweEt Mauritius; 06-18-10 at 06:56 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    We have been over this ground Goshin. Many gay couples are the parents of one or more kids already. Further, the means exists for gay couples to have children.

    Not without the intervention of a third party who is not part of the marriage.

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Not without the intervention of a third party who is not part of the marriage.
    So? Going to the doctor is not a big deal. In fact, most strait married couples use the assistance of some one outside the marriage to have their children.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #35
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    According to who is that the primary societal reason for encouraging marriage?

    .

    Several thousand years of history in thousands of different cultures, including cultures like the ancient Greeks, who embraced homosexual behavior broadly but still reserved marriage for male-female unions to produce children.

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So? Going to the doctor is not a big deal. In fact, most strait married couples use the assistance of some one outside the marriage to have their children.

    Most??

    I find that very improbable. I'm not talking about using a doctor to deliver the child, either, I'm talking about conception.

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Most??

    I find that very improbable. I'm not talking about using a doctor to deliver the child, either, I'm talking about conception.
    Wait! So there is some arbitrary distinction between when it is OK for a couple to use a doctor in the process of having children? Why?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #38
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Wait! So there is some arbitrary distinction between when it is OK for a couple to use a doctor in the process of having children? Why?

    Easy high lob.

    Because hetero couples, in the vast majority of cases, can reproduce and bear children without a doctor's aid. Proof: millenia of history.

    Homo couples are completely incapable, by the very nature of their relationship, of producing children without outside intervention.... to whit, the use of someone else's ovum, sperm, or womb. In essense they do not produce children, but rather get them from an outside source.

    This is a very fundamental difference. Subset A (straight couples) have the capacity in most cases to produce children that are an actual product of the marriage; Subset B (homo couples) do not, period. I consider it significant. Probably you don't... if you don't, then oh well you just don't. The point remains a fact, however.
    Last edited by Goshin; 06-18-10 at 07:16 PM.

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  9. #39
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Easy high lob.

    Because hetero couples, in the vast majority of cases, can reproduce and bear children without a doctor's aid. Proof: millenia of history.

    Homo couples are completely incapable, by the very nature of their relationship, of producing children without outside intervention.... to whit, the use of someone else's ovum, sperm, or womb. In essense they do not produce children, but rather get them from an outside source.

    This is a very fundamental difference. Subset A (straight couples) have the capacity in most cases to produce children that are an actual product of the marriage; Subset B (homo couples) do not, period. I consider it significant. Probably you don't... if you don't, then oh well you just don't. The point remains a fact, however.
    It's an arbitrary distinction. It's entirely meaningless. Doctors are used in the process of childbearing. The ability is there for gay couples to have children. Saying this does not count because, well, because you think it shouldn't does not change the facts.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #40
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Several thousand years of history in thousands of different cultures, including cultures like the ancient Greeks, who embraced homosexual behavior broadly but still reserved marriage for male-female unions to produce children.
    Hmm are we discussing the effects of same-sex marriage on thousands of ancient civilizations or its effects on 21st century American society? What is your response to my main point, that even if producing and raising children is the primary societal reason for encouraging marriage, how is that construed to mean same-sex marriage shouldn't be allowed? Same-sex marriage encourages children in the same way that opposite-sex marriage encourages children in infertile couples. What is the distinction, and why does the "intervention of a third party" matter at all if the result is the same?

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