View Poll Results: Marriages without children should be dissolved

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  • Agreed, dissolve them!

    2 3.23%
  • Disagree, marriage ain't just about children

    60 96.77%
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Thread: Marriages without children should be dissolved

  1. #11
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Kind of like speaking with seething hatred pouring from your words as you put "religious" people in quotes and proclaim a negative trait to an entire grouping of people in an extremely bigoted way? That kind of smokescreen?

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    No, I dont think the marriages should be disolved. People sometimes have children after they have given up hope of ever getting pregnant. And, couples can adopt children.

    As well as that, I dont think marriage is only for having children. It is also about making a promise and commitment to love.

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, based ONLY on what the threads asking and assuming its mentality was true, yeah...they should be dissolved.

    Since I've seen few if any people actually make the argument singularly and solely that its the physical act of "making the babies" and not the potential for it and the family unit it provides its a rather hollow and completely irrelevant poll that is nothing but an agenda driven propoganda poll. But based on that agenda drive propoganda and that extremely narrow realm of reality its attempting to suggest we believe is absolutely true, yeah the answers "yes".

    Though its as asanine as a question as going "Should we allow marriage between a Man and his pet rock" because "Some" on the pro-gay marriage side say its just about love and nothing else.
    There is a fundamental problem with the bolded part of your words. It's the 21st century. Gay people do have options to have children if they choose. For lesbians in fact it is fairly easy. For gay men it is a bit trickier involving surrogates, but still very doable. And this is where the "historically" falls apart. Historically, gays did not have these options to have children. They do now. The world has changed, and when that happens, laws have to scramble to keep up.
    Last edited by Redress; 06-18-10 at 11:57 AM.
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    lost my reply to zyph sorry... no internet at home, leaving work.

  5. #15
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    The point is that having children isn't required by the government to be married. While it is a benefit the government promotes, it isn't mandatory. It isn't mandatory that the couple love or even have sex each other. It's two individuals joining together to form a corporation.
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There is a fundamental problem with the bolded part of your words. It's the 21st century. Gay people do have options to have children if they choose. For lesbians in fact it is fairly easy. For gay men it is a bit trickier involving surrogates, but still very doable. And this is where the "historically" falls apart. Historically, gays did not have these options to have children. They do now. The world has changed, and when that happens, laws have to scramble to keep up.
    Hey look everyone, someone made an actual legitimate counter point against the actual argument rather than twisting the argument around and using hyperbole to try and counter it or ignoring the argument and arguing against stereotypes rather than what's actually being said.

    Amazing how that can happen.

    And in honesty I agree with you Redress. I don't buy the studies that say somehow homosexual parents are worse than hetero ones as there's too much evidence on both sides to say conclusively. I think "different" would be a better explanation as "worse". I also think the "oddity" of it would be reduced greatly within a decade or two of gay marriage/civil union being legalized as the "oddity" is primarily out of the rarity of it currently. Its why I don't fully agree with the whole "government interest in potential to raise a child" idea.

    Though my stance has been long stated on the forum, which is the word marriage needs to be stripped from the law complete and replaced with "civil union" in all cases, and then open it up to any two individuals baring pairings that violate the law (such as pedophilia, incest, etc).

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    This argument(lack of children) against gay marriage is ridiculous as all of them all. As someone who's an adoptive and foster parent I find idea that straight people have the only claim to parenthood false. In addition to young couples who chose not to or can't have children what about older couples, past child bearing age, who choose to get married. Are they wasting their time?

    It is unfortunate that some people want to try to control who people can and cannot love. We all know that is impossible. I don't know what people find so frightening about two consenting adults getting married just because they are the same gender. No one is asking them to watch, attend the wedding, or even send a nice gift. Some people really need to learn to mind their own business.
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    As argued wonderfully by Panache for some time on this forum...

    Marriage is not about love.

    Your arguments for why the Child rearing thing doesn't work are similar to the ones for why the notion that saying someone can't be married is determining who they can love.

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Kind of like speaking with seething hatred pouring from your words as you put "religious" people in quotes and proclaim a negative trait to an entire grouping of people in an extremely bigoted way? That kind of smokescreen?
    No smokescreen, friend, I say it outright, they are hypocrites hiding behind falsehoods without the moxie or the honesty to state their real motivations. No "hatred," just a refusal to be browbeat into buying bull ****.
    Last edited by The Uncola; 06-18-10 at 11:11 AM.

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You're taking a general point and trying to make it a specific one.

    The argument is not that all marriages that do not produce children are invalid.

    The argument is that historically, marriage has been largely about the production and raising of children.

    Almost all straights who marry have at least the potential of fulfilling this function. Not all actually do, of course. This has been acknowleged. But the vast majority do.

    Gay marriage is incapable, by its very nature, of producing children without the intervention of a third party who is not part of the marriage. That is the difference.
    This triggers the question of whether those who are known to be incapable of having children without intervention should be barred from marriage. i.e. a young woman who had to undergo a hysterectomy for some reason before marriage or a man who is paralyzed.

    These types of marriages are, by thier vary nature, incapable of producing children without the intervention of a third party who is not part of the marriage.

    Also, this would trigger questions about the legality of marriages which include post-menopausal women.

    All SSM does is treat marriage exactly as it is treated in these two-gender instances where child production is known to be totally impossible without 3rd party intervention.
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