View Poll Results: Marriages without children should be dissolved

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  • Agreed, dissolve them!

    2 3.23%
  • Disagree, marriage ain't just about children

    60 96.77%
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Thread: Marriages without children should be dissolved

  1. #91
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Homosexuals can have families too. In fact they already do in spite of the government holding their head in the sand about it.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Therefore, denying homosexual couples the right to marry for the sole reason that they can't biologically produce offspring makes no sense at all. They are as capable as any heterosexual couple of raising a happy, productive member of society. How that child came to be in their household should be the least of society's concern. What matters is that these children have a stable home environment, recognized, validated and protected by law.
    I think this is an area where there is a lot of confusion, Arcana.

    I (speaking only for myself) am not seeking to deny anyone anything.

    I have consistantly said that anyone of legal age should be able to enter a marital contract with just about anyone else.

    My opposition (if you even want to call it that) is where people feel that every variation we can come up with should be 'recognized' or validated by the government,... with benefits and all that.

    And I'm sorry,... but those benefits and incentives (in my opinion) should only be reserved for the criteria for marriage that meets the 'general welfare' needs of the nation.

    We don't need 'gay marriage' for our society to survive in the same way that we 'generally' need one man one woman marriages.

    Sorry if it offends,... but it's true. We don't.

    I think the best arguements for gay marriages to be recognized is when the cases are made that it is best for the 'general welfare' needs of the nation.

    I still disagree with it in the end (as the nation has survived and flourished without it for 200 plus years),.... but it's still the hardest case to defend against.

  3. #93
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    And I'm sorry,... but those benefits and incentives (in my opinion) should only be reserved for the criteria for marriage that meets the 'general welfare' needs of the nation.

    We don't need 'gay marriage' for our society to survive in the same way that we 'generally' need one man one woman marriages.

    Sorry if it offends,... but it's true. We don't.
    It isn't about the life or death of the nation. It would be an improvement to the general welfare. The government has an interest in promoting families. Gays can have families. The government treats gay families differently.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It isn't about the life or death of the nation. It would be an improvement to the general welfare. The government has an interest in promoting families. Gays can have families. The government treats gay families differently.
    Using your logic, and and all marriages should be so validated,... Bigamy, Poligamy, Incestuous, etc. Because they all love each other and just want the benifits of marriage.

    But the "ideal" needs of the nation is not that each and every conceivable union be recognized.

    The ideal for the nation is that the one that most suits the 'general welfare' be recognized and even incentivized.

    If you started with a blank sheet (as I said before) and tried to determine what 'marriage' would best start as a foundation for American societies,... you would (in my opinion) inevitably arrive at the conclusion that it is the "one man one woman" model that inherently has a male and female role model,.. and the (in general) means to reproduce itself,... etc.

    Everyone else can still get 'married',... But the government (in my opinion) need only recognize and provide incentives for the model that best serves the 'general welfare' needs of us all. (collectively)

  5. #95
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    My opposition (if you even want to call it that) is where people feel that every variation we can come up with should be 'recognized' or validated by the government,... with benefits and all that.

    And I'm sorry,... but those benefits and incentives (in my opinion) should only be reserved for the criteria for marriage that meets the 'general welfare' needs of the nation.
    Well, that's the thing, I really think that the criteria you speak of is changing. People no longer view marriage in the same way they did in the past. Society is changing. Reconstructed or single parent families have become the norm and along with that comes a whole new vision of what "marriage" is and what role it's supposed to play in society.

    We don't need 'gay marriage' for our society to survive in the same way that we 'generally' need one man one woman marriages.

    Sorry if it offends,... but it's true. We don't.
    There are a lot of things we don't "need", but have put in place anyway, simply because they're the right thing to do. Today's society is very reluctant to put up with the "separate but equal" solution of civil unions. And a growing number of people are having a hard time justifying that the wishes of a minority should be completely disregarded just because society has no need for them.

    I think the best arguements for gay marriages to be recognized is when the cases are made that it is best for the 'general welfare' needs of the nation.
    As I said before, the "general welfare needs of the nation" are no longer as clear-cut as they once were.

    I still disagree with it in the end (as the nation has survived and flourished without it for 200 plus years),.... but it's still the hardest case to defend against.
    Things change. Appeals to tradition are seldom successful.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    As I said before, the "general welfare needs of the nation" are no longer as clear-cut as they once were.

    Things change. Appeals to tradition are seldom successful.
    Conservatives typically are reluctant to change what works for the sake of a want or a change for the sake of change.

    It will take more than a bunch of whining and complaining to change my vote for what should be accepted, rewarded and incentivized in the way of 'marriage.'

    Despite all the ranker (spelling?) we will always come back to the fact that the one man one woman model best serves the 'general welfare' criteria set by the Constitution.

  7. #97
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Using your logic, and and all marriages should be so validated,... Bigamy, Poligamy, Incestuous, etc. Because they all love each other and just want the benifits of marriage.

    But the "ideal" needs of the nation is not that each and every conceivable union be recognized.

    The ideal for the nation is that the one that most suits the 'general welfare' be recognized and even incentivized.

    If you started with a blank sheet (as I said before) and tried to determine what 'marriage' would best start as a foundation for American societies,... you would (in my opinion) inevitably arrive at the conclusion that it is the "one man one woman" model that inherently has a male and female role model,.. and the (in general) means to reproduce itself,... etc.

    Everyone else can still get 'married',... But the government (in my opinion) need only recognize and provide incentives for the model that best serves the 'general welfare' needs of us all. (collectively)

    After all, the "very conservative position" is that government should always get off the backs of the people and not impose its own views on us, right? The government shouldn't tell us who we can and cannot rent our house to, or who we have to hire -- the best government is the one that stays out of our lives!

    The "very conservative position" is also that the government should always get on the backs of the people who have different positions than they do and should impose its own views on them. Gays should not be married, abortion should be illegal, the government should promote Christianity, and so on.

    Somehow, the fact that they hold two completely opposite ideologies never occurs to them.

  8. #98
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Conservatives typically are reluctant to change what works for the sake of a want or a change for the sake of change.
    The change has already occurred.
    Conservatives can refuse to acknowledge that it has, but they only make themselves appear more and more anachronistic, obsolete, and out of step by refusing to acknowledge the reality of what's going on around them.
    These changes have happened gradually over the past fifty years, which is longer than anyone here has even been alive.
    Conservatives have had plenty of time- their entire lives, in fact- to get used to the fact that society is in flux.

    Despite all the ranker (spelling?)
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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Everyone else can still get 'married',... But the government (in my opinion) need only recognize and provide incentives for the model that best serves the 'general welfare' needs of us all. (collectively)
    How does letting a married couple comprising of one man and one woman being able to make medical decisions for the the other best serve the general welfare but having a married couple comprising of two men together or a married couple comprising of two women together being denied the ability to make medical decisions for each other best serve the general welfare?

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    Re: Marriages without children should be dissolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    After all, the "very conservative position" is that government should always get off the backs of the people and not impose its own views on us, right? The government shouldn't tell us who we can and cannot rent our house to, or who we have to hire -- the best government is the one that stays out of our lives!

    The "very conservative position" is also that the government should always get on the backs of the people who have different positions than they do and should impose its own views on them. Gays should not be married, abortion should be illegal, the government should promote Christianity, and so on.

    Somehow, the fact that they hold two completely opposite ideologies never occurs to them.

    An incredibly apt observation.
    The arrogance and hypocrisy of this paradoxical ideology makes me truly despise conservatives.

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