View Poll Results: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

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Thread: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I voted no. Denying someone US citizenship if they are born here is unconstitutional. Unless we amend the constitution no one should have their child's citizenship denied.
    I agree with you. The problem is that when the constitutions was ratified this country needed people. Now, thanks to the population explosion, it's the other way around. We are getting flooded by people taking advantage of an out of date amendment.

    I would suggest that the words, "whose parents are legally in this country at their time of birth" be added to the original one.

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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Glad to see you're an advocate of slavery, you know...since you think whatever was the case 200+ years ago should be the same as it is today.

    No, it's just an amusing 'what if'.

    America was populated from distant lands except for the local tribes. Many large groups received citizenship and cheap land just for coming here. The land is expensive now and the owners are attempting to turn America into a gated community. I cannot abide by this mentality. If those born here will not be American citizens, will they be citizens at all, anywhere?

    Stupid idea.
    Last edited by d0gbreath; 06-17-10 at 11:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    No, it's just an amusing 'what if'.

    America was populated from distant lands except for the local tribes. Many large groups received citizenship and cheap land just for coming here. The land is expensive now and the owners are attempting to turn America into a gated community. I cannot abide by this mentality. If those born here will not be American citizens, will they be citizens at all, anywhere?

    Stupid idea.
    We DO NOT owe anybody citizenship anywhere what we should owe is citizenship to those who are willing to go thru the appropriate procedures to become such if neither parent is not a U.S. citizen and yes the barrier should not be such that only a lucky few can come in but at a rate that would not threaten our own culture such as it is.
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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    No, it's just an amusing 'what if'.

    America was populated from distant lands except for the local tribes. Many large groups received citizenship and cheap land just for coming here. The land is expensive now and the owners are attempting to turn America into a gated community. I cannot abide by this mentality.
    You can't abide by the mentality that what was true 200+ years ago can't feasibly be true today? You say no, yet your words keep pointing to you being all in favor of the days of forcing blacks to pick cotton. Since your only argument seems to be "its what it was before".

    Previously these people were coming into an area that was relatively lightly populated. When the Europeans and then the Americans conquered the various portions of land and declared it "Theirs" the land was wide open, spread out, and needing to be lived upon. For these conquering people to be able to even put together a society they NEEDED individuals, as many as they could, to choose to come over and be a part of it or else it would've failed. There was a necessity to allowing it to happen as it benefited their goal as a society.

    This is not the case today when our cities are over populated, our welfare system is financially strained, our unemployment is rising, our laws cause private industries to take great losses, and there is no longer a over arching large societal need to open and complete flooding of individuals into the country.

    If you own an apartment complex you need to have people that want to move in or else you're not going to get any return on your investment. So you start off with great deals and loose regulations. However 20 years later if you're the best apartment complex in town its reasonable to have higher prices, tighter regulations, and a more strenuous application process because now its no longer you needing any and all individuals to make your business work but instead having such a huge demand for your space that you must be more stringent to maintain the high standards you've come to embody.

    You probably use to work for $5.00 an hour or something similar. Should you be expected to ALWAYS make that because it was good enough for you at one point so it must always be fine? You once lived with your parents, should you always remain living with your parents because what was good for you at one point will always be best for you? No. As time goes on and situations change the need for various things change and shift and thus the reaction to those things also changes and shifts.

    In the late 1700/early 1800's the U.S. needed anyone and everyone it could get to come into the country to provide a base grouping of citizenship and to spur it forward then it made sense to be more open with immigration. As time went on and the need for more outside individuals became less and less then the need for more stringent and picky immigration standards was also needed.

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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You can't abide by the mentality that what was true 200+ years ago can't feasibly be true today? You say no, yet your words keep pointing to you being all in favor of the days of forcing blacks to pick cotton. Since your only argument seems to be "its what it was before".

    Previously these people were coming into an area that was relatively lightly populated. When the Europeans and then the Americans conquered the various portions of land and declared it "Theirs" the land was wide open, spread out, and needing to be lived upon. For these conquering people to be able to even put together a society they NEEDED individuals, as many as they could, to choose to come over and be a part of it or else it would've failed. There was a necessity to allowing it to happen as it benefited their goal as a society.

    This is not the case today when our cities are over populated, our welfare system is financially strained, our unemployment is rising, our laws cause private industries to take great losses, and there is no longer a over arching large societal need to open and complete flooding of individuals into the country.

    If you own an apartment complex you need to have people that want to move in or else you're not going to get any return on your investment. So you start off with great deals and loose regulations. However 20 years later if you're the best apartment complex in town its reasonable to have higher prices, tighter regulations, and a more strenuous application process because now its no longer you needing any and all individuals to make your business work but instead having such a huge demand for your space that you must be more stringent to maintain the high standards you've come to embody.

    You probably use to work for $5.00 an hour or something similar. Should you be expected to ALWAYS make that because it was good enough for you at one point so it must always be fine? You once lived with your parents, should you always remain living with your parents because what was good for you at one point will always be best for you? No. As time goes on and situations change the need for various things change and shift and thus the reaction to those things also changes and shifts.

    In the late 1700/early 1800's the U.S. needed anyone and everyone it could get to come into the country to provide a base grouping of citizenship and to spur it forward then it made sense to be more open with immigration. As time went on and the need for more outside individuals became less and less then the need for more stringent and picky immigration standards was also needed.
    So you think that the Mexicans should pick cotton now? That's basically what they are doing, working very hard in the sun all day for little money.

    Sure, we have our problems. We have always had problems. But our problems aren't as bad as our neighbors to the south. We can't deport all of the illegals now can we? It's not possible. So do you think that denying citizenship to a baby is going to fix anything? Absurd. You are mad about all of the illegals in the US, so you feel like you and Sheriff Joe are going to make life more miserable for them so that they will go home. They will never go home until they are too old for hard work.

    So take away a child's citizenship chances. It's OK, they're used to being **** on by know-it-all American blow-hards. See you in Church.
    Last edited by d0gbreath; 06-17-10 at 02:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    We DO NOT owe anybody citizenship anywhere what we should owe is citizenship to those who are willing to go thru the appropriate procedures to become such if neither parent is not a U.S. citizen and yes the barrier should not be such that only a lucky few can come in but at a rate that would not threaten our own culture such as it is.
    Changing the American birth right is not going to help any of the things that concern you. You have much bigger issues. I don't feel that our own culture is being threatened at all. If anything, it's being improved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    So you think that the Mexicans should pick cotton now? That's basically what they are doing, working very hard in the sun all day for little money.
    First, its rather pathetic to compare what illigal immigrants are doign in this country now to what slaves went through. They're not equal, nor the same.

    Second, I'm not the one advocating returning to 1800's American law, you are.

    Sure, we have our problems. We have always had problems. But our problems aren't as bad as our neighbors to the south.
    So what? So they have problems. Great, lets see what ways under the law we can help them if you really care. Encourage citizens to donate money to charities whose aim is to help mexican families in mexico. Great. Them having problems doesn't mean they should get to violate U.S. Laws and then create an anchor to tug then attempt to go "see, see, you can't get rid of us, our kids a citizen! Granted, he's a citizen only because we utilized a loophole in the constitution after coming here illegally, breaking your laws, and showing no respect for your country."

    We can't deport all of the illegals now can we? It's not possible.
    Bull****. You and others keep repeating this with zero factual evidence of proof. You can't just state something and deem it so.

    A combination of securing the border, enforcing the laws on employers, and focused law enforcement for deportation is most definitely potentially possible and we'll never truly know unless we try it.

    So do you think that denying citizenship to a baby is going to fix anything?
    Absolutely it'll fix some things....

    It'll fix the chances of them possibly being granted amnesty by reducing that chance because it will be one less bull**** thing that people with no respect for our laws can use to attempt to sway people based on not on logic, nor law, nor reason, but on pure emotion.

    It'll remove an incentive for them coming into America illegally, as they'll no longer be able to do it and then pop out a kid to garauntee their kid citizenship and to give themselves something they can use to try and fight their deportation.

    Absurd. You are mad about all of the illegals in the us, so you feel like you and Sheriff Joe are going to make life more miserable for them so that they will go home. They will never go home until they are too old for hard work.
    Yes, amazing that, I'm mad at criminals. Wonders of all wonders. And god forbid, I want criminals to be punished. WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT OF SUCH A RIDICULOUS NOTION!?!!!

    So take away a child's citizenship chances. It's OK, they're used to being **** on by know-it-all American blow-hards. See you in Church.
    Sorry, I don't go to church.

    But thanks for the ignorant insult. Here's a wonderful thought. Aim your idiotic anger at their criminal parents.

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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Funny how the subject of illegal immigration turns a lot of progressives into mouth-foaming idiots.

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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Funny how the subject of illegal immigration turns a lot of progressives into mouth-foaming idiots.
    Say huh what?
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    Re: Should citizenship be denied to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants?

    The Constitutional question is an interesting one. Going by a strict constructionist or textualist approach, the 14th ammendment would clearly mean that anyone born on US soil is a citizen, thus making laws striking down anchor babies unconstitutional. But if you look at it as a orginalist or a contextualist, I think its pretty clear the original intent of the amendment was to apply to former slaves and ensure that they were not denied citizenship in the south. The amendment was passed before we had any kind of immigration controls and never could've forsaw such things. It was meant to address a specific issue at a specific time.

    Of course, these are merely academic arguments. The courts have ruled that the 14th ammendment applies to the children of non-citizens with the exemption of foreign diplomats, invading soldiers, and certain Native American tribes (which was changed later when Congress passed a law giving all native born Native Americans citizenship).

    Surprisingly, as I was looking at court cases on the 14th amendment, the Supreme Court has also struck down laws denying the children of illegal immigrants (even if the child in question is also here illegally and not a native born child) access to public education.

    So at this point, its clearly going to take an ammendment to end anchor babies. I've never had a strong view on either side of this debate, but I'm increasingly leaning towards ending the loophole and for those that oppose it, I'm curious what your reasons are? Other than Constitutional objections which would be addressed by an amendment.
    Last edited by Psychoclown; 06-17-10 at 03:04 PM.
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