View Poll Results: What is your proposal?

Voters
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  • $100 to me, $0 to player B

    4 7.02%
  • $99 to me, $1 to player B

    3 5.26%
  • $90 to me, $10 to player B

    1 1.75%
  • $80 to me, $20 to player B

    1 1.75%
  • $70 to me, $30 to player B

    2 3.51%
  • $60 to me, $40 to player B

    7 12.28%
  • $50 to me, $50 to player B

    36 63.16%
  • $40 to me, $60 to player B

    3 5.26%
  • $30 to me, $70 to player B

    0 0%
  • $20 or less to me, $80 or more to player B

    0 0%
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Thread: Hypothetical: $100 Game

  1. #71
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    The expectation is fairplay, absolutely. But what in my example is unfair? I won the coin toss, I get to choose. Those are the rules. It's fair for you to decline the deal, but irrational.
    It's not irrational if I'm getting $0 either way. If my financial outcome is the same either way, I may as well pick the outcome that gives me emotional satisfaction (i.e. screwing you over). Nothing irrational about that. Now if you had split the money $99/$1, I would agree that it would be irrational of me to reject your offer, assuming, of course, that my primary goal is to maximize my profit.

    However, you shouldn't assume that I'll be rational in that situation, because many people won't. I think the optimal amount for Player A to split is probably somewhere between $50/$50 and $70/$30. That has nothing to do with Player A's altruism, and everything to do with Player A's desire to maximize his own profit, in light of the potential irrationality of Player B.

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz
    So the difference in our beliefs is this: I believe that the winner of the first coin toss has the only entitlement privelages. i.e. person A. They get to choose who gets the money and so the money is already their's IMO. They are entitled to it.
    Obviously it's much more desirable to be Player A than Player B, but Player A is not all-powerful since Player B has veto power. Player A can't just assume that Player B will accept any offer Player A makes...especially if the offer is $100/$0.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-14-10 at 06:29 PM.
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Like all variations on the Prisoner's Dilemma, this is a kinda fascinating game that ultimately really does not prove much outside of it's aspects in game theory. Since I am lazy, I would just pick 50/50 and walk out with some easy free money.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Admit it - you were playing Oregon Trail while you wrote this post.
    You can't prove anything!




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  4. #74
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I don't get it, but I'd like to understand your reasoning better. So let's set it up to make sure we're clear: We are in a game. I win the first toss and get to choose how the money is split. So I choose $100 to me, $0 to you. You have two choices:

    To reject it: in which case- GAME OVER - you get $0

    To accept it: in which case I get $100, you get $0.00 -

    Either way you get $0.00. Why would you not allow me to have $100 at no additional cost to you? It's my choice to make if you get money and you're choice if I get money. But my choice of giving you money means I get less money. Your choice of giving me money means nothing to you since you're already getting nothing. I truly don't understand your response.

    Likewise, if I lost the first toss and was person B, I would expect you, Person A, to do what was best for you. If you did split it with me, I'd accept it and think you made an illogical choice. Because why wouldn't you expect me to give you the $100 at no cost to me? what would it matter to me at that point? Just because you could have done something differently? The fact is that the situation is now, do you get $100 or not. And why not? It's no cost to me.
    I'm very much into fairness. I wouldn't have made money either way, if your offer is 100/0. But maybe you will learn a lesson in human behavior by not getting anything either. I know I will feel better that eventhough I don't get any money, neither do you. It really would be a matter of feeling entitled to something, and that something should be fairly close to $50.

    I will go back on saying that I would always turn down something less than $50, but really it would all depend on my mood and financial status at the time of the game. If I really needed the money, then I would be more willing to accept less, but if I didn't need the money, then I'd be more willing to give it all up to try to prove a fairness point. I'm sure other people would choose differently, but I think very few would be willing to let you have all the money, especially if the game was only played once.
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  5. #75
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Since it's a game of chance, 50-50.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    But you are implying that a larger number of something is better, which is incorporating psychology again.

    There can be value in something without human psychology being a factor. It can be caused by human biology, for example.

    99 items of food > than 1 item of food > 0 items of food. Psychology does not have any bearing on that. Psychology would only come into play if the food was liked or not, thus altering the biological value by incorporating the psychological devaluation.

    99 bullets in the chest < 1 bullet in the chest < 0 bullets in the chest. Again, Psychology isn't a factor. Psychology would only be a factor if one was suicidal and wanted to reject biological imperatives.

    These examples do not incorporate human psychology, but it also shows that value can be assessed without psychology being involved.
    No, Tuck. I am not saying that a greater number has more value. I am saying that a greater number is a greater number. Period. I assign no value to the numbers other than arithmetic. 99>0 because it IS. There is no inherent value to the numbers because, in their primal state, they represent nothing.

    You are correct, however. Once you add value to what the numbers represent, you add human psychology to the issue. That is why I altered my position on a scenario inside a vacuum. Player B loses nothing by accepting a 100/0 split. It would be illogical for him to turn this down.
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  7. #77
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Player B loses nothing by accepting a 100/0 split. It would be illogical for him to turn this down.
    Why? He doesn't GAIN anything by accepting a 100/0 split either. Why should he want to help Player A get some money, when Player A has already shown no interest in helping HIM get some money?
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  8. #78
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    Even from a psychology standpoint I believe: though I give them no incentive to say yes either. 99/1 gives better odds at beating their psychology. But I have to assume they know I'm going to do what's in my best interest (at no cost to them) as I would assume in the vice versa if we won the first toss, and I would concede to the 100/0 deal if I were player B. And even if they disagree and shoot down my proposal, I still lose nothing.
    IN your scenario, though, human psychology becomes a factor, because you cannot predict what the other player will do. It then becomes dependent on what you want and what that player is willing to accept, both of which are relative. This turns the game into a game of chance, rather than a game of math. You then have to figure the best odds. 50/50 would be the best odds.
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    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #79
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why? He doesn't gain anything either. Why should he want to help Player A get some money, when Player A has already shown no interest in helping HIM get some money?
    You are taking the position that psychology and personality would be included. I am saying it is not. Wants and interest mean nothing in what I am describing.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #80
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    Re: Hypothetical: $100 Game

    I'm curious...would anyone's answer to the OP change if it wasn't "free money"? Suppose instead that both players paid $50 for the right to participate in this experiment.
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