View Poll Results: The thread title.

Voters
51. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    29 56.86%
  • No

    22 43.14%
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 59

Thread: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

  1. #31
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Not really, under a modern market economy anarchism is quite possible.
    No it isn't. The market economy requires common defense, contract enforcement, fraud protection and a few other basics to work at all.

    Anarcho-capitalism does not need coercive force of any kind because it is based on the contractual society, the right of self ownership, and the non-aggression principle.
    Which is why Anarcho-Capitalism is only a fantasy. Human beings don't follow those principles, especially the non-aggression principle.

    Mob rule =/= anarchy in any way, shape, or form.
    No, it was what anarchy inevitably turns into. The anarcho-communists had the same absurd idealistic notions you share that everyone would just work together and so no government was needed at all. They realized that didn't work, and compromised their beliefs by allowing votes into the workers councils.

  2. #32
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Not really, under a modern market economy anarchism is quite possible.
    For about 10 minutes before people realize that there are no rules. Why should I pay when I point more guns at you then you at me?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #33
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    For about 10 minutes before people realize that there are no rules. Why should I pay when I point more guns at you then you at me?
    No, actually you don't need the state racketeering scheme to have a police force, you can enter into voluntary contractual agreements with private security firms.

  4. #34
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    No, actually you don't need the state racketeering scheme to have a police force, you can enter into voluntary contractual agreements with private security firms.
    Okay, what's stopping the next guy from getting a bigger firm with more guns? Nothing.

    What you don't seem to get is that anarchy quickly turns into Despotism.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    No it isn't. The market economy requires common defense,
    No it doesn't:

    Private defense agency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Domestic security could be handled through voluntary contracts with private security agencies, and a common defense against nation states could be provided by private defense firms.

    contract enforcement, fraud protection
    The most important mechanism for contract enforcement and fraud protection would be ones own reputation but there would still remain a system of liability tort and private arbitration to settle such disputes.

    and a few other basics to work at all.
    Such as?


    Which is why Anarcho-Capitalism is only a fantasy. Human beings don't follow those principles, especially the non-aggression principle.
    And that is why the individual retains the right of self defense and the right to enter into private voluntary contracts with security firms, they would, also, retain the right to collective self defense as they could enter into voluntary contractual agreements with fellow citizens to set up things like a neighborhood watch.

    No, it was what anarchy inevitably turns into. The anarcho-communists had the same absurd idealistic notions you share that everyone would just work together and so no government was needed at all. They realized that didn't work, and compromised their beliefs by allowing votes into the workers councils.
    One of the most important freedoms is the the right to private property in that the individual has a right to the fruits of their own labour, this right does not even exist within anarcho-communism, anarchy can only exist when sovereignty is held by the individual, anarcho-communism places sovereignty within the hands of a collective, how is that different than a state exactly? In fact how is that different than a totalitarian state? Not only does the collective have a state like quality but because it controls the means of production it has the characteristics of a totalitarian state. You can not decentralize authority by centralizing the means of production into the hands of a collective, you can only decentralize authority by having many different competing interests controlling the means of production and that can only exist under a free market economy.

  6. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay, what's stopping the next guy from getting a bigger firm with more guns? Nothing.
    Under a free market economy the competition within the system would negate the possibiilty of one firm becoming to powerful, if one security firm starts acting in a tyrannical way; such as, forcing its consumers to purchase their services then the consumers would simply turn to another private security firm. Monopolies can not form without the aid of state through such things as barriers to entry and exclusive state contracts which prop up the larger firms and harm the smaller ones.

    What you don't seem to get is that anarchy quickly turns into Despotism.
    Why is that?

    "We must ask, not whether an anarcho-capitalist society would be safe from a power grab by the men with the guns (safety is not an available option), but whether it would be safer than our society is from a comparable seizure of power by the men with the guns. I think the answer is yes. In our society, the men who must engineer such a coup are politicians, military officers, and policemen, men selected precisely for the characteristic of desiring power and being good at using it. They are men who already believe that they have a right to push other men around - that is their job. They are particularly well qualified for the job of seizing power. Under anarcho-capitalism the men in control of protection agencies are selected for their ability to run an efficient business and please their customers. It is always possible that some will turn out to be secret power freaks as well, but it is surely less likely than under our system where the corresponding jobs are labeled 'non-power freaks need not apply'." -- David Friedman
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-20-10 at 09:11 PM.

  7. #37
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Under a free market economy the competition within the system would negate the possibiilty of one firm becoming to powerful, if one security firm starts acting in a tyrannical way; such as, forcing its consumers to purchase their services then the consumers would simply turn to another private security firm.
    Forcing customer to purchase? What are you talking about? With sufficent force, people can take whatever they want. Furthermore, the largest PMCs could simply join and take every other firm out and then take over. Again, anarchy leads to Despotism. There is nothing stopping those with the largest amount of force from doing what they want when they want to whomever they want.

    Monopolies can not form without the aid of state through such things as barriers to entry and exclusive state contracts which prop up the larger firms and harm the smaller ones.
    Monopolies can form when you are able to forcibly eliminate your compeition by shooting them in the face.


    They are particularly well qualified for the job of seizing power. Under anarcho-capitalism the men in control of protection agencies are selected for their ability to run an efficient business and please their customers. It is always possible that some will turn out to be secret power freaks as well, but it is surely less likely than under our system where the corresponding jobs are labeled 'non-power freaks need not apply'."[/I] -- David Friedman
    Somalia suggests otherwise. When a power vaccum arise from a collapse of a goverment, we do not see what you proclaim arise. We see those with the power take power and execute all who get in their way.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #38
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 11:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    IMO (and, I think, anyone who thinks about it), a full anarchy, or even anarcho-communist, system, is always going to fail.

    Relying on humans to do the right thing will never work, at least with the vast majority of current and past humans.

    A system that includes the minimum of government involvement, however, would be better IMO.

    But some people don't like thinking for themselves, and so...
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #39
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Under a free market economy the competition within the system would negate the possibiilty of one firm becoming to powerful, if one security firm starts acting in a tyrannical way; such as, forcing its consumers to purchase their services then the consumers would simply turn to another private security firm.
    The private security firm doesn't have to compete on an open market. They can simply use force to take what they want from anyone weaker than they are. If there customers try to switch, they can kill some and terrorize the rest into submission.


    "We must ask, not whether an anarcho-capitalist society would be safe from a power grab by the men with the guns (safety is not an available option), but whether it would be safer than our society is from a comparable seizure of power by the men with the guns. I think the answer is yes. In our society, the men who must engineer such a coup are politicians, military officers, and policemen, men selected precisely for the characteristic of desiring power and being good at using it. They are men who already believe that they have a right to push other men around - that is their job. They are particularly well qualified for the job of seizing power. Under anarcho-capitalism the men in control of protection agencies are selected for their ability to run an efficient business and please their customers. It is always possible that some will turn out to be secret power freaks as well, but it is surely less likely than under our system where the corresponding jobs are labeled 'non-power freaks need not apply'."
    He has it backwards. A formal government like the U.S. treats its citizens far better than a Somali warlord.

    Monopolies can not form without the aid of state through such things as barriers to entry and exclusive state contracts which prop up the larger firms and harm the smaller ones.
    Do you seriously think that every monopoly in history was state backed? Have you even heard of microsoft?

  10. #40
    Devourer of Poor Children
    DrunkenAsparagus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    DC
    Last Seen
    01-20-16 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,496

    Re: Is the term "anarcho-communist" an oxymoron?

    Anarchism is the belief that no government should tell you what to do, but your neighbors should.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •