View Poll Results: Wellfare... Is it un-American

Voters
76. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    33 43.42%
  • No

    43 56.58%
Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 118

Thread: Is wellfare today un-American?

  1. #1
    User VoodooChild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    north carolina
    Last Seen
    07-20-10 @ 01:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16

    Is wellfare today un-American?

    SO THE BIG QUESTION...

    is it unamerican for the federal government to take my money and give it to someone else because they think they are entitled to it.


    MY TWO CENTS...

    America was partly founded on this idea of "the prusuit for happiness". to me it seems wellfare is more like the "gift of happiness". Is there an excuss to be on wellfare today? I dont understand how someone born and raised in Mexico that doesn't speak english can somehow cross the border illegally and find work to better their families back in Mexico but an American born and raised in this nation some how cant make ends meet. Is the American public making excusses for these people on wellfare, and by giving it to them are we just keeping them content with there current situation. I think so. It seems that a majority of people on wellfare keep repeating the same cycle generatin after generation. There are people getting wellfare that have things like cable TV, cellphones, Internet etc... I'm all about helping someone out, but if im going to give someone a helping hand its going to be on my terms. i want to decide if that person deserves my help, not the government deciding for me.

  2. #2
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    181,667

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Income redistribution-fueled as a way for dem politicians to gain office and with it power and wealth-is going to destroy this nation



  3. #3
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,190

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Well, first I'd have to ask are you legitimately and honestly wanting an answer or are you just looking for confirmation of belief? The reason I ask that is the question and the way you give it is unquestionably pitched in such a way that it displays your own personal bias and belief in the way you term it:

    "is it unamerican for the federal government to take my money and give it to someone else because they think they are entitled to it."

    In the most basic and literalistic reading of the words you wrote, then yes I'd view that as American. However, what you typed above is in general not the reasons legally or publicly given for why most of the entitlement programs exist in America. You may argue it's the private motivation behind them, but that is arguing what you believe to be peoples thoughts as if its fact, which is a bit more difficult especially when you're making it in a very broad sense.

    Now if you ask the following which is a more honest representation of what the supposed purpose of entitlements are:

    "Is it unamerican for the federal government to take my money and give it to someone else in hopes of increasing the overall well being of the country."

    Then I think you'd get more to the crux of what entitlement programs purposes are. In that case I think it becomes far mroe questionable whether its "unamerican" to do such. Essentially the view on one side that no matter what "Good" you may think may come from the end, the means of taking it from someone that earned that money for himself is not justified by it. On the other side you have the view that the individual losing the money is still benefiting from it by people part of a society who overall is improved.

    So to see if this is "unamerican" or not we need to look at the very principle of it...having something taken from you to help someone else which might or might not have a directly positive affect on your life. This is essentially what the government does often in a general sense of some sort. It is not "unamerican" to have taxes, there was nothing inherently "anti-all taxes" within the founding documents or the founders. They realized that government is an entity and anarchy is not preferable, and as such a government entity needs revenue of some kind. This money generated by taxes goes to variety of things like roads, the military, etc. Many of these things, especially in early America, could be very questioanble about rather or not they directly affect an individuals lives and how much it affects their lives in an indirect way.

    I think Entitlements are generally an extension of this kind of thinking. As such, I think in the end, "no", I do not think Entitlement programs on the governments side of things are necessarily "UnAmerican" in principle. You could make an argument that the notion that it "helps society" isn't true, but that's an issue of opinion or disagreement on the outcome and not necessarily about intent. I do think that you could have a case in regards to some/many of them of being potentially unconstitutional, but something that is unconstitutional or someone that promotes something that's unconstitutional doesn't make someone "UnAmerican" (If it was you'd have George Bush being "UnAmerican" amongst almost all of the 2001 congress). However, in general, the notion of the government taking a citizens money to put that money into programs that's going to primarily help other citizens but overall believed to help everyone is not in and of itself an Unamerican theory.

  4. #4
    Tavern Bartender
    #NeverOprah
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,524

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    I'd say that welfare today has become too much American.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #5
    Student MikeVFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VT
    Last Seen
    01-24-12 @ 05:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    276

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    I know way too many people who "live off wellfare, its hooked up bro". This has been hevily taken advantage. If You think weed unmotivates, try giving people free govt. money and see what happens, oh wait, we already have -_-... Not legit stats but id say for every 1 person that deserves government money, 3 people dont, sadly they all "need" it now because they are addicted to govenment entitlement programs...

  6. #6
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Income redistribution-fueled as a way for dem politicians to gain office and with it power and wealth-is going to destroy this nation
    This depends: By "welfare" are you including Medicare and Social Security? If so, I'll let you complain.

    Otherwise, the biggest welfare programs are the subsidization of giant corporate farms, the oil industry, etc.

    If - and this is a serious question - IF there is SOOOOO much distribution of the rich's money going to the poor - then how is this true?

    The Exact Middle Class (i.e. those making median income) have seen their gap over the 20th Percential (those in the bottom fifth) stay steady since 1965. In other words, proportionally, they're making the same they did 45 years ago.

    Now, those in the 95th percentile have seen THEIR income over those making median income (the Exact Middle Class) nearly double - from 2.6x the median to nearly 3.8x the median.
    Changes in Income Inequality across the U.S. (2007-28, 9/21/2007)

    From 1993 to 2007 the wealthiest 1% of Americans captured 50% of all the income growth. If you factor just from 2002 to 2007 (the "recovery"), they captured fully 2/3rds of all economic growth.
    Washington's Blog

    This article The return of the millionaires | Money & Company | Los Angeles Times
    suggests that the wealth concentration is only further continuing, as the stock market rebounded from its lowest points, the number of millionaires - AND their share of American wealth continued to rise during 2009, even while unemployment continued to rise. So, Obama's a socialist?

    So - if we're supposed redistributing so much from the rich to the poor - how is it the rich have continued concentrating their wealth, while the middle classes and the poor have - at best - remained steady for nearly 40 years?

    I'm just asking.

    To me the most un-American thing is the continuing inequality of opportunity. The cost of health care has outpaced inflation two-fold. The cost of college has outpaced inflation 3-fold. So how are we keeping opportunity equal if the average American family is making essentially the same amount it was making 40 years ago, when the core costs of living have risen so much more - ESPECIALLY when the cost of advancement (a college degree) has outpaced inflation by the rate it has.

  7. #7
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    is it unamerican for the federal government to take my money and give it to someone else because they think they are entitled to it.
    As far as I can tell, there is no such thing as "american." We are all individuals here and should act as such. The idea of an authentic american culture personally pisses me off because such a thing, if enforced, would restrict my freedoms and suggests a top down approach to life (people must be made to conform to some culture) instead of a bottom up (people decide for themselves and act accordingly).
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-11-10 at 12:35 PM.

  8. #8
    Educator ronpaulvoter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Seen
    07-18-16 @ 04:25 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    627

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooChild View Post
    SO THE BIG QUESTION...

    Is it unamerican for the federal government to take my money and give it to someone else because they think he is entitled to it?
    Absolutely.

    It is theft. You don't steal, either for yourself or for someone else.

    In addition, it subsidizes dependence and irresponsibility and punishes responsibility and productive behavior.

  9. #9
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    01-19-12 @ 03:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    358

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    As far as I can tell, there is no such thing as "american." We are all individuals here and should act as such. The idea of an authentic american culture personally pisses me off because such a thing, if enforced, would restrict my freedoms and suggests a top down approach to life (people must be made to conform to some culture) instead of a bottom up (people decide for themselves and act accordingly).
    We agree on so much sometimes. But then disagree when it's time to put our thoughts into actions.

    "American Culture" is ridiculous and shouldn't be 'maintained' ever. American culture is what the culture of the citizens of the country make it. There is no culture that can be enforced.

    However, I understand what people mean when they say that something is 'unAmerican' - If they mean it in the 'correct' way - they're not trying to say that a person shouldn't live their life a certain way inside their home. Or they're not saying that a person needs to have a house that has 1200 sq ft, 1 acre of land and a cell phone for each kid.

    They are talking about ideas. The ideas of the constitution are American. To go against the philosophical ideas of what is 'right and wrong' as defined by the ideals of the constitution is 'unAmerican'. To go against the balance of power, to go against a federal government that has limited powers by definition, to go against somebody who is simpy trying to 'pursue' happiness - even if what they define happiness as 'getting as much money as I can!' - so long as that pursuit doesn't infringe on another person's rights. If they go against these things, they are unAmerican. American is an idea of supporting the rights of each citizen based on the constitution.

    One of the most recognizable infringements on my individual rights is increased tax for welfare. This money is mine in my pursuit of happiness. And to go against that, even if you don't think this is the 'right' way to achieve happiness, is wrong because my efforts to achieve my definition of happiness do no infringe upon anybody else's rights. And so nobody has the right to stop me via taxes. That is unAmerican.

  10. #10
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,244
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooChild View Post
    SO THE BIG QUESTION...

    is it unamerican for the federal government to take my money and give it to someone else because they think they are entitled to it.


    MY TWO CENTS...

    America was partly founded on this idea of "the prusuit for happiness". to me it seems wellfare is more like the "gift of happiness". Is there an excuss to be on wellfare today? I dont understand how someone born and raised in Mexico that doesn't speak english can somehow cross the border illegally and find work to better their families back in Mexico but an American born and raised in this nation some how cant make ends meet. Is the American public making excusses for these people on wellfare, and by giving it to them are we just keeping them content with there current situation. I think so. It seems that a majority of people on wellfare keep repeating the same cycle generatin after generation. There are people getting wellfare that have things like cable TV, cellphones, Internet etc... I'm all about helping someone out, but if im going to give someone a helping hand its going to be on my terms. i want to decide if that person deserves my help, not the government deciding for me.
    There is nothing unAmerican about accepting public assistance. There's nothing unAmerican about providing public assistance. What's unAmerican is when the system itself is so corrupt that it often times subsidizes an "I-don't-want-to-do" mentality. Getting on public assistance has become the job objective of far too many Americans...whether it be Section 8 Housing, food stamps, Social Security Disability, Veterans Disability, Aid to Dependent Children, etc.

    I'm proud that our country has very few beggars in the streets....that children don't go hungry...that handicapped people are able to live in dignity with marginally good lives. I'm disgusted that so many people choose to take advantage of the system and that the system has seen fit to let it ride. That's the part that's unAmerican.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •