View Poll Results: Wellfare... Is it un-American

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    33 43.42%
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Thread: Is wellfare today un-American?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    As far as I can tell, there is no such thing as "american." We are all individuals here and should act as such. The idea of an authentic american culture personally pisses me off because such a thing, if enforced, would restrict my freedoms and suggests a top down approach to life (people must be made to conform to some culture) instead of a bottom up (people decide for themselves and act accordingly).



    We have an authentic American culture. how does that restrict your freedoms?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  2. #32
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Ok?...and?
    It could happen here if we allow our population to become millions of people with nothing. The millions of Romans with nothing decided that the few wealthy Romans really didn't need anything either. So they destroyed the empire. History tends to repeat unless there are means with which to alter the circumstances.

  3. #33
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    We have an authentic American culture. how does that restrict your freedoms?
    If anything is the authentic "American culture" it is that this country is a melting pot of different cultures, and to the best of our abilities, we accept people for who they are, and welcome them here with open arms.

  4. #34
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    The mobs of the homeless unemployed Romans burned the place to the ground.
    they didn't have high capacity magazines



  5. #35
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Looking at how the pilgrims and the puritans behaved in the early days, I would say that welfare is not un-American. They believed in working hard and changing your own lot, but they also believed in charity. I think today's Americans are much more selfish and complacent than those hard workers from history who had to struggle for their personal freedom in a foreign land, and to carve out a new life for themselves.

    I think the right wing would call early Americans "socialist" these days.

  6. #36
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Looking at how the pilgrims and the puritans behaved in the early days, I would say that welfare is not un-American. They believed in working hard and changing your own lot, but they also believed in charity. I think today's Americans are much more selfish and complacent than those hard workers from history who had to struggle for their personal freedom in a foreign land, and to carve out a new life for themselves.

    I think the right wing would call early Americans "socialist" these days.
    charity is very different than government enforced welfare where politicians push it to gain power and wealth

    those who most want welfare socialism tend to be those trying to thwart or eliminate private charity



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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    charity is very different than government enforced welfare where politicians push it to gain power and wealth

    those who most want welfare socialism tend to be those trying to thwart or eliminate private charity
    First of all you don't know what the word socialism is. Study history.

    Second, if people were truly charitable like the people of the early days, welfare would not be required. I have heard the argument that people should just donate to charities at will, but it's not enough, and in your rich country people should not be dying on the streets from starvation.

    I agree that social programs are abused by politicians to get political points, but the programs are very much needed. Just because you are disconnected from the needs of the less fortunate of your society - and you obviously are, because if you genuinely knew how bad things can get you would not be arguing against welfare - does not mean that the problems do not exist or are being exaggerated.

    Charity and welfare exist simultaneously. It is not one or the other, so your claim is bunk.

  8. #38
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    First of all you don't know what the word socialism is. Study history.

    Second, if people were truly charitable like the people of the early days, welfare would not be required. I have heard the argument that people should just donate to charities at will, but it's not enough, and in your rich country people should not be dying on the streets from starvation.

    I agree that social programs are abused by politicians to get political points, but the programs are very much needed. Just because you are disconnected from the needs of the less fortunate of your society - and you obviously are, because if you genuinely knew how bad things can get you would not be arguing against welfare - does not mean that the problems do not exist or are being exaggerated.

    Charity and welfare exist simultaneously. It is not one or the other, so your claim is bunk.
    1) you have no clue what I know so stuff the attitude. SOcialism has many meanings these days and I use the one that is commony accepted.

    2) the main purpose of welfare-socialism is to gain political power. There are politicians who cater to those who produce and create wealth and then there are poltiicians who desire power and wealth and try to gain that by catering to those who want the wealth others produce. that avenue is welfare-socialism

    3) libs have argued for ending or at least reducing tax credits for charitable contributions which would make charity more expensive

    so you are wrong

    deal with it



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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) you have no clue what I know so stuff the attitude. SOcialism has many meanings these days and I use the one that is commony accepted.
    In other words you use a popularized buzz word that you have no historical basis for. I have a pretty clear idea of what you know based on the kinds of arguments you tend to make and the media catch phrases you tend to employ.


    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    2) the main purpose of welfare-socialism is to gain political power.
    No the main reason is to provide for those who are not in a position to provide for themselves. A society with no safety net begins to have other related social problems, which is why developed nations take steps to ensure that things never deteriorate so steeply.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    There are politicians who cater to those who produce and create wealth and then there are poltiicians who desire power and wealth and try to gain that by catering to those who want the wealth others produce. that avenue is welfare-socialism
    Welfare-socialism isn't a term I recognize as someone who as studied politics. Do us all a favor and stop watching Glenn Beck. I know he sounds like an academic professor to you but the garbage you are spewing is really ruining your credibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    3) libs have argued for ending or at least reducing tax credits for charitable contributions which would make charity more expensive
    Your use of the word "libs" is quite telling of the angle you're trying to pitch. Are you aware that classical conservatives also support some measure of welfare in order to ensure economic capacity?

    I guess you wouldn't know that because you're not a real conservative.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so you are wrong

    deal with it
    I better call my therapist right away.

  10. #40
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    1) I used the term welfare socialism- I cannot help it you are not aware of what that means

    2) You can believe that dems want to help the poor. I believe the rich dems claim that but in reality want to keep people dependent on the government and addicted to voting for dem politicians. I don't believe uber rich dems like Kerry really care about the poor. Rich dem charitable contributions are rather poor compared to similarly situated Republicans. I guess being a Canadian you have a special insight into what really motivates our wealthy welfare socialists

    3) what is a real conservative? if your knowledge of conservative mirrors your ignorance on welfare-socialism this should be a good laugh



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