View Poll Results: Wellfare... Is it un-American

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  • Yes

    33 43.42%
  • No

    43 56.58%
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Thread: Is wellfare today un-American?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I would rather my hard earned dollars not have the prefix "tax" in front of them.

    And that means they shouldn't be stolen from me to bride either big business or little lazybones.
    Most workers are NOT lazy. Some poeple cannot work for medical reasons and need that help. It's not right to call them lazy. That is a bull**** republican rhetoric passed by greedy business owners who do not deserve to be called "Americans" because they are the most un-American people on the planet.

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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Most workers are NOT lazy. Some poeple cannot work for medical reasons and need that help. It's not right to call them lazy. That is a bull**** republican rhetoric passed by greedy business owners who do not deserve to be called "Americans" because they are the most un-American people on the planet.
    tell us vader-what causes your almost hysterical hard on for business owners. Lumping all together is rather silly IMHO



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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    tell us vader-what causes your almost hysterical hard on for business owners. Lumping all together is rather silly IMHO
    A fair question. I dislike big business because it is inherently corrupt. Businesses are allowed to do whatever to whoever without consequences. The laws of this country do not protect the American worker from these big business scumbags. The laws that claim to help American workers are vauge, inconsistant, and often manipulated by big business scumbags who do believe the should be subject to them.

    Republicans do nothing but pander and teabag these big business scrumsuckers. Republicans (for the most part) are the tools used by business owners to avoid responsibility for their actions. This is the root of my extreme loathing of Republicans. In life, Republicans have only caused misery and suffering.

    I answered your question because I felt, as someone who debates with you much of the time, it might help you to understand where I come from and why I think as I do.

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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    A fair question. I dislike big business because it is inherently corrupt. Businesses are allowed to do whatever to whoever without consequences. The laws of this country do not protect the American worker from these big business scumbags. The laws that claim to help American workers are vauge, inconsistant, and often manipulated by big business scumbags who do believe the should be subject to them.

    Republicans do nothing but pander and teabag these big business scrumsuckers. Republicans (for the most part) are the tools used by business owners to avoid responsibility for their actions. This is the root of my extreme loathing of Republicans. In life, Republicans have only caused misery and suffering.

    I answered your question because I felt, as someone who debates with you much of the time, it might help you to understand where I come from and why I think as I do.
    you opinion not shared but I give you credit. you answered directly and i am sure you believe this. I respect that even if I don't agree with it.



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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, first I'd have to ask are you legitimately and honestly wanting an answer or are you just looking for confirmation of belief? The reason I ask that is the question and the way you give it is unquestionably pitched in such a way that it displays your own personal bias and belief in the way you term it:

    "is it unamerican for the federal government to take my money and give it to someone else because they think they are entitled to it."

    In the most basic and literalistic reading of the words you wrote, then yes I'd view that as American. However, what you typed above is in general not the reasons legally or publicly given for why most of the entitlement programs exist in America. You may argue it's the private motivation behind them, but that is arguing what you believe to be peoples thoughts as if its fact, which is a bit more difficult especially when you're making it in a very broad sense.

    Now if you ask the following which is a more honest representation of what the supposed purpose of entitlements are:

    "Is it unamerican for the federal government to take my money and give it to someone else in hopes of increasing the overall well being of the country."

    Then I think you'd get more to the crux of what entitlement programs purposes are. In that case I think it becomes far mroe questionable whether its "unamerican" to do such. Essentially the view on one side that no matter what "Good" you may think may come from the end, the means of taking it from someone that earned that money for himself is not justified by it. On the other side you have the view that the individual losing the money is still benefiting from it by people part of a society who overall is improved.

    So to see if this is "unamerican" or not we need to look at the very principle of it...having something taken from you to help someone else which might or might not have a directly positive affect on your life. This is essentially what the government does often in a general sense of some sort. It is not "unamerican" to have taxes, there was nothing inherently "anti-all taxes" within the founding documents or the founders. They realized that government is an entity and anarchy is not preferable, and as such a government entity needs revenue of some kind. This money generated by taxes goes to variety of things like roads, the military, etc. Many of these things, especially in early America, could be very questioanble about rather or not they directly affect an individuals lives and how much it affects their lives in an indirect way.

    I think Entitlements are generally an extension of this kind of thinking. As such, I think in the end, "no", I do not think Entitlement programs on the governments side of things are necessarily "UnAmerican" in principle. You could make an argument that the notion that it "helps society" isn't true, but that's an issue of opinion or disagreement on the outcome and not necessarily about intent. I do think that you could have a case in regards to some/many of them of being potentially unconstitutional, but something that is unconstitutional or someone that promotes something that's unconstitutional doesn't make someone "UnAmerican" (If it was you'd have George Bush being "UnAmerican" amongst almost all of the 2001 congress). However, in general, the notion of the government taking a citizens money to put that money into programs that's going to primarily help other citizens but overall believed to help everyone is not in and of itself an Unamerican theory
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  6. #106
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Most workers are NOT lazy. Some poeple cannot work for medical reasons and need that help. It's not right to call them lazy. That is a bull**** republican rhetoric passed by greedy business owners who do not deserve to be called "Americans" because they are the most un-American people on the planet.
    Your heart is in the correct place, and I DO agree with you. BUT.... myself living in Chicago I must say there are MANY here that abuse and steal from the ones that have.

    That being said I dont know how the homeless DONT have welfare.
    They NEED it! I dont know how one GETS welfare, but there are folks that need it and DONT have it, and ones that HAVE it and dont need it.
    CORPORATE GREED AND UNION GREED
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    DESTROYING THE BEST OF AMERICA ONE DAY AT A TIME

    This is the worst kind of discrimination. The kind against ME! ~ Bender

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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Most workers are NOT lazy. Some poeple cannot work for medical reasons and need that help. It's not right to call them lazy. That is a bull**** republican rhetoric passed by greedy business owners who do not deserve to be called "Americans" because they are the most un-American people on the planet.
    Of course most workers aren't lazy.

    That's why they're called "workers".

    It's perfectly right to call people who won't work, lazy.

    It's what the word "lazy" means.

    As for those who can't work, if they don't wish to be lumped in with the lazy ones, they have to start campaigning vigorously to stop the transfer of wealth from the workers to the lazy.

    Also, those who DO work would feel more charitable towards those that CAN'T work if those who WON'T work weren't handed the money stolen from those who WORK for it. Chew on that one for a while.

    Speaking of robots and cliches, why did you just claim all business owners are "greedy" in your post complaining about your perception that not all welfare parasites are lazy?
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 08-04-10 at 02:07 AM.

  8. #108
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Your heart is in the correct place, and I DO agree with you. BUT.... myself living in Chicago I must say there are MANY here that abuse and steal from the ones that have.

    That being said I dont know how the homeless DONT have welfare.
    They NEED it! I dont know how one GETS welfare, but there are folks that need it and DONT have it, and ones that HAVE it and dont need it.
    There are a lot of qualifiers for getting welfare, and welfare isn't a single program. Welfare is basically any public assistance program. You have to be able to maneuver through the bureaucracy in order to get it. I'm starting to be of the opinion that we should have some kind of official to help educate people on which government programs they can qualify for. If their taxes pay for it, then they should know which programs that they pay for they are eligible for.

    As for the homeless, many of them are mentally ill, and so don't know enough on how to help themselves. This isn't a homeless problem but rather a mental illness problem. For that, we need social workers to reach out to them and provide mental health services. But good luck convincing people to pay taxes to help out others with conditions they can't help having.

  9. #109
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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I believe it was implied to mean: static American culture in which we must adhere. American culture, is by definition, a melting pot of different and everchanging beliefs. Which means that it is necessary to accept a differing belief. So to say that certain things, such as gay marriage, are not allowed because it's against the culture that is America is just dumb... that culture is meant to be constantly in flux and permissive.
    What is the static German culture, or static French culture?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Is wellfare today un-American?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Income redistribution-fueled as a way for dem politicians to gain office and with it power and wealth-is going to destroy this nation

    A ten second emotional response, via quick text, from the turtledude..
    This question deserves better.
    Why not do some research, better yet, talk with a welfare recipient?
    I have been there(welfare line), its degrading... I'd rather starve, I think.
    Last edited by earthworm; 08-05-10 at 01:04 PM.

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