View Poll Results: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

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  • Yes, they should be allowed to demand a traditional Christian moral code from all teachers

    40 41.24%
  • They should be allowed if they prove they apply the same standards to all teachers

    4 4.12%
  • They should be allowed, but that doesn't make it right

    22 22.68%
  • They are discriminating against women, since fornication is more obvious with them

    3 3.09%
  • If the school board members can prove they never fornicated, then they stand on solid ground

    3 3.09%
  • Christian schools should not be allowed to discriminate on moral grounds

    11 11.34%
  • Christians are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the face of the Earth!

    8 8.25%
  • Other response

    6 6.19%
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Thread: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

  1. #341
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So just to clarify, if an employee came into work late once six months ago, and the employer didn't raise the issue at the time, you DO think it should be legal for the employer to then use that as a justification to fire her when she requests maternity leave?
    Wrong type of question, first of all yes if she had a pattern of absenteeism or a pattern of being late he would be well within his rights to fire her. A more apt analogy would be if the place of business had a zero tolerance policy for drug use and the lady came and asked for vacation time to go to a drug rehabilitation clinic. I mean how stupid can you be?

    Sorry, but that is the stupidest **** I've ever heard, and no one who believes in the rule of law can possibly take that seriously. If the courts actually took your claim seriously (which fortunately they don't...and haven't for nearly a century), then the employment contract guaranteeing maternity leave would mean literally nothing, as the employer will nearly ALWAYS be able to find SOME small violation of the rules in an employee's past to justify her termination.
    You can't get pregnant if you abstain from sex. About the only way to prove that the person was having sex outside of marriage would be to come in and say they were pregnant and request maternity leave. If there was a contractual obligation to abstain from sex while employed then she violated the contract and now she wants a payed vacation for violating the contract? Are you ****ing kidding me?
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-17-10 at 07:22 PM.

  2. #342
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Being a private entity is no excuse for violating the employee's contractual right to maternity leave.
    If she violated the contractual agreement it does, you can't very well be entitled to maternity leave if one of the stipulations of the contract is to abstain from pre-marital sex unless of course she pulled a Hail Mary. Ha! Anyways she could have just thrown herself down a flight of stairs, no fuss no muss no incriminating bulge in 4 months.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-17-10 at 07:27 PM.

  3. #343
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Did the school do this?
    If they came up with a petty excuse (e.g. having premarital sex) to fire her after she requested maternity leave, then yes.
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  4. #344
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    If she violated the contractual agreement it does, you can't very well be entitled to maternity leave if one of the stipulations of the contract is to abstain from pre-marital sex unless of course she pulled a Hail Mary. Ha! Anyways she could have just thrown herself down a flight of stairs, no fuss no muss no incriminating bulge in 4 months.
    What if the stipulation of the contract is giving up the right to vote because she was female or had to vote for the candidate the school endorsed?
    Last edited by winston53660; 06-17-10 at 07:42 PM.

  5. #345
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    What if the stipulation of the contract is giving up the right to because she was female or had to vote for the candidate the school endorsed?
    A) The right to what?

    B) If she doesn't like the stipulations within the contract then there's a very easy remedy. DON'T AGREE TO THE CONTRACT!!!

  6. #346
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    A) The right to what?
    Oh the right vote sorry my bad

  7. #347
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Wrong type of question, first of all yes if she had a pattern of absenteeism or a pattern of being late he would be well within his rights to fire her.
    Wrong. The employer would be well within his rights to fire her for being late AT THE TIME. But if six months passed and the employer never so much as raised the issue, then the employer would NOT be able to fire her for this reason after she requested maternity leave. The employer's own actions indicated that it was not a problem until the employee wanted maternity leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    A more apt analogy would be if the place of business had a zero tolerance policy for drug use and the lady came and asked for vacation time to go to a drug rehabilitation clinic. I mean how stupid can you be?
    With maternity leave, the reason why she's leaving is obvious. This is not the case with vacation time. Did the employer require the employee to disclose how she would be spending her vacation, or did she volunteer this information? If the former, then yes, it's illegal for the same reason: You can't deny someone leave to which they are contractually entitled just because you're able to concoct an excuse for firing them. If the latter, it's a bit different as she VOLUNTEERED the information...but even in this case, I'm not sure if it would fly with a judge, as the employer STILL didn't raise the issue until the employee requested leave. Plenty of companies have a zero tolerance policy on the books, but not in practice. An employee handbook is not the end-all-be-all just because it's in writing; if the employer routinely ignores violations of its own written rules, then a judge will (and should) take that into account when determining what the company's ACTUAL policy was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    You can't get pregnant if you abstain from sex. About the only way to prove that the person was having sex outside of marriage would be to come in and say they were pregnant and request maternity leave. If there was a contractual obligation to abstain from sex while employed then she violated the contract and now she wants a payed vacation for violating the contract? Are you ****ing kidding me?
    The employer never raised the issue until the employee requested leave. Ergo, it is functionally equivalent to firing someone for coming in late one time six months ago, or for stealing a pencil from the office last year. You can't pull that crap once an employee requests their leave. You can let them take their leave and THEN fire them if it's truly a problem, but you can't just make up excuses to get rid of them because you don't want to pay for their leave.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-17-10 at 07:49 PM.
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  8. #348
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    If she violated the contractual agreement it does, you can't very well be entitled to maternity leave if one of the stipulations of the contract is to abstain from pre-marital sex unless of course she pulled a Hail Mary.
    Irrelevant. The employer didn't care enough to fire her until AFTER she applied for maternity leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    Ha! Anyways she could have just thrown herself down a flight of stairs, no fuss no muss no incriminating bulge in 4 months.
    You're just trolling now.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-17-10 at 07:48 PM.
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  9. #349
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Wrong. The employer would be well within his rights to fire her for being late AT THE TIME. But if six months passed and the employer never so much as raised the issue, then the employer would NOT be able to fire her for this reason after she requested maternity leave. The employer's own actions indicated that it was not a problem until the employee wanted maternity leave.
    An employer has the right to review his employees work performance whenever they want, if that performance is found to be lacking then he has the right to fire her, that would include excessive absenteeism and lateness.

    With maternity leave, the reason why she's leaving is obvious.
    The reason is obvious, IE that she violated her contractual agreement.

    This is not the case with vacation time. Did the employer require the employee to disclose how she would be spending her vacation, or did she volunteer this information? If the former, then yes, it's illegal for the same reason: You can't deny someone leave to which they are contractually entitled just because you're able to concoct an excuse for firing them.
    Um if she requested maternity leave then she volunteered the information that she violated her contractual agreement to abstain from sex while under there employ, see ya later.

    If the latter, it's a bit different as she VOLUNTEERED the information...but even in this case, I'm not sure if it would fly with a judge, as the employer STILL didn't raise the issue until the employee requested leave. Plenty of companies have a zero tolerance policy on the books, but not in practice. An employee handbook is not the end-all-be-all just because it's in writing; if the employer routinely ignores violations of its own written rules, then a judge will (and should) take that into account when determining what the company's ACTUAL policy was.
    Oh I see a contractual obligation means absolutely **** all to you. Why even have contract terms then?

    The employer never raised the issue until the employee requested leave. Ergo, it is functionally equivalent to firing someone for coming in late one time six months ago, or for stealing a pencil from the office last year. You can't pull that crap once an employee requests their leave. You can let them take their leave and THEN fire them if it's truly a problem, but you can't just make up excuses to get rid of them because you don't want to pay for their leave.
    Understand contracts are not binding unless they are continiously enforced under strict zero tolerance guidelines. Interesting, bull****, but interesting none the less. A contract is a contract, she violated the contract, she was in the wrong, the employer had every right to fire her.

  10. #350
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Irrelevant. The employer didn't care enough to fire her until AFTER she applied for maternity leave.
    No it's not irrelevant, you can't actually prove conclusively that someone is having sex unless they volunteer the information willingly which she did by applying for maternity leave, she violated the contract end of story. Oh and just where did you come up with the idea that a contract is only valid if it is continiously enforced under zero tolerance guidelines?

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