View Poll Results: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

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  • Yes, they should be allowed to demand a traditional Christian moral code from all teachers

    40 41.24%
  • They should be allowed if they prove they apply the same standards to all teachers

    4 4.12%
  • They should be allowed, but that doesn't make it right

    22 22.68%
  • They are discriminating against women, since fornication is more obvious with them

    3 3.09%
  • If the school board members can prove they never fornicated, then they stand on solid ground

    3 3.09%
  • Christian schools should not be allowed to discriminate on moral grounds

    11 11.34%
  • Christians are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the face of the Earth!

    8 8.25%
  • Other response

    6 6.19%
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Thread: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

  1. #281
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    Separation of church and state doesn't mean religious-affilated groups should get special status (I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case here, but that's basically what you're all for). Even if it was true, and even if she'd have a case to sue Wal-mart for the same reason, you'd still be all for this school having exempt status because it's a "religious" organization.
    I understand that and agree. I was not implying it was everyone. You know what and who I mean though.

    No I would be for any private orginization to hire anyone they want. And if the person agrees to follow certain guidlines even if moral, that would be OK as well. Has to do with the whole freedom thing.

    Would a Christian relief organization want satanist working for them? What if someone converted later. What if one of the relief workers was having intercourse with some of the people they were trying to help? These kind of things can reflect badly on any religious organization and even some that are not. As long as it is applied equally among all employees and does not result in breaking Federal guidelines for discrimination. No one should have a problem.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-14-10 at 09:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  2. #282
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Here's a question/idea I just thought of:

    What if there was a religion out there that advocated discriminatory (of some sort) treatment for pregnant women. As a result, no business owner of that religion could keep to his/her religion while still employing a pregnant woman.

    If they fired a woman because of this religious belief...it would seem to violate federal law as it stands.

    But, would it not follow that the same federal law violated the whole "separation of church and state" bit, in such a case?

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Here's a question/idea I just thought of:

    What if there was a religion out there that advocated discriminatory (of some sort) treatment for pregnant women. As a result, no business owner of that religion could keep to his/her religion while still employing a pregnant woman.

    If they fired a woman because of this religious belief...it would seem to violate federal law as it stands.

    But, would it not follow that the same federal law violated the whole "separation of church and state" bit, in such a case?

    Thoughts?
    If it violates federal law, that trumps any separation of church and state. The story that is the subject of this thread can be used as an example.

    If they terminated her employment for being pregnant, that is discrimination under Federal and state law. If she was fired for violating a moral clause that she agreed to upon hiring, the termination is legal under Federal and state law.

    The situation is actually simple. It is the details that are lacking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Truth is we don't know. They said they have a "moral" clause that was made clear to her upon hiring.
    Perhaps, but that moral cause as solid legal defense would have to be reasonable and agreed upon in writing. I wonder if this school is willing to pubicly release its contracts. I suspect not.
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Perhaps, but that moral cause as solid legal defense would have to be reasonable and agreed upon in writing. I wonder if this school is willing to pubicly release its contracts. I suspect not.
    I agree. Of course if it can be shown that it is explained as part of the hiring process, that would also stand up in court.

    It will be interesting to see how this goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I agree. Of course if it can be shown that it is explained as part of the hiring process, that would also stand up in court.

    It will be interesting to see how this goes.
    Perhaps. Court is sketchy. On one hand, the court is highly unlikely to support ridiculous requirements over the personal private time of an employee. But on the other hand, if no one forced the employee to agree to the contract under duress, the plantiff is fresh out of luck. IMO, it really depends on the level of absurdity that the school mandated.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Lets just agree to disagree.
    That should only be done for relatively unimportant differences of opinion, such as whether pasta or potatoes are better. It shouldnt be done where human rights opinions are concerned.

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    You know, after thinking about this for days I'm beginning to agree with those who feel that she was wrongfully terminated.

    As has been pointed out - you can't just fire someone because they're pregnant. There must be a more solid reason and often time one can find that reason if they are so determined. So - for them to openly admit that they fired her because of her pregnancy brings their motive into obvious question. Merely being religious shouldn't instantly bring this into "ok" - if in any other realm of employment it would be unacceptable.

    What did they use to do in these situations? Just keep it quiet?
    Well, they should have done that this time, as well. . .under the radar = forgiveness (since that's what they're all about) = and moving on moving on. . . if she was, otherwise, a moral person and quite well rounded, and a good teacher, this should have been given flex, whether they liked it or not.
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You know, after thinking about this for days I'm beginning to agree with those who feel that she was wrongfully terminated.

    As has been pointed out - you can't just fire someone because they're pregnant. There must be a more solid reason and often time one can find that reason if they are so determined. So - for them to openly admit that they fired her because of her pregnancy brings their motive into obvious question. Merely being religious shouldn't instantly bring this into "ok" - if in any other realm of employment it would be unacceptable.

    What did they use to do in these situations? Just keep it quiet?
    Well, they should have done that this time, as well. . .under the radar = forgiveness (since that's what they're all about) = and moving on moving on. . . if she was, otherwise, a moral person and quite well rounded, and a good teacher, this should have been given flex, whether they liked it or not.
    Further, in order for her to fail in her requirement to maintain a good moral example to the kids, someone would have had to disclose to the kids exactly when she got pregnant versus when she got married. She breached no agreement unless she went advertising it.

  10. #290
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You know, after thinking about this for days I'm beginning to agree with those who feel that she was wrongfully terminated.

    As has been pointed out - you can't just fire someone because they're pregnant. There must be a more solid reason and often time one can find that reason if they are so determined. So - for them to openly admit that they fired her because of her pregnancy brings their motive into obvious question. Merely being religious shouldn't instantly bring this into "ok" - if in any other realm of employment it would be unacceptable.

    What did they use to do in these situations? Just keep it quiet?
    Well, they should have done that this time, as well. . .under the radar = forgiveness (since that's what they're all about) = and moving on moving on. . . if she was, otherwise, a moral person and quite well rounded, and a good teacher, this should have been given flex, whether they liked it or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Further, in order for her to fail in her requirement to maintain a good moral example to the kids, someone would have had to disclose to the kids exactly when she got pregnant versus when she got married. She breached no agreement unless she went advertising it.
    Both of you are jumping to conclusions based on one side of the story. The school said she was not fired for being pregnant. They said she was fired for telling them, she had sex before she was married. The school felt this was in violation of the schools morality clause agreed to before she was hired.

    Could the school be lying? Absolutely. Could she be lying? Yes.

    So basically you are saying you will take her word for it because you disagree with a moral clause being used for hiring in a religious institution.

    Because the limited evidence so far does not say either party is correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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