View Poll Results: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

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  • Yes, they should be allowed to demand a traditional Christian moral code from all teachers

    40 41.24%
  • They should be allowed if they prove they apply the same standards to all teachers

    4 4.12%
  • They should be allowed, but that doesn't make it right

    22 22.68%
  • They are discriminating against women, since fornication is more obvious with them

    3 3.09%
  • If the school board members can prove they never fornicated, then they stand on solid ground

    3 3.09%
  • Christian schools should not be allowed to discriminate on moral grounds

    11 11.34%
  • Christians are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the face of the Earth!

    8 8.25%
  • Other response

    6 6.19%
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Thread: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

  1. #221
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Well, yes. I personally view that code as a goal to shoot for that no one ever reaches.

    You obviously misunderstood my point.

    As I understand it, she was not fired because of her pregnancy.

    If that is your contention, please prove to me that she was, as I have not seen anything that indicates such.
    My understanding of the situation leads me to the conclusion that you are incorrect.

    Thus, please prove your statements.

    I’ve seen that several times in this thread already – What part of the incident indicates to you that this portion of the Federal Law applies to this case?

    Additionally, don’t you think her lawyer would have mentioned it if such a legal violation had occurred?
    The part that indicates that she was fired for premarital sex. I link being pregnant to having sex. They are somewhat related. I don't know, I am taking a step back and thinking that maybe my argument isn't as valid as I originally thought, to be honest. Regardless, even if I am wrong, I think that premarital sex will simply be included into what a person cannot be discrimated against for.

    Regarding the lawyer, do you know how many idiotically stupid lawyers there are out there? Or perhaps I am just wrong... *shrugs*
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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  2. #222
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    In Florida, employees are presumed to be "at will." At-will employees may be terminated for any reason, so long as it's not illegal. Generally, employees who work under an employment contract can only be terminated for reasons specified in the contract. In Florida, it is very difficult to overcome the at-will presumption.

    Employers are not allowed to terminate or discriminate against employees for the following reasons:

    •Age
    •Race
    •Sex
    •Religion
    •National origin
    •Disability
    •Pregnancy
    It's illegal for an employer to consider these characteristics with regard to:

    •Promotions
    •Job assignments
    •Termination
    •Wages
    And it's illegal for an employer to terminate an employee:
    •For refusing to break a law
    •In retaliation for filing a discrimination or safety claim
    •For taking leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act
    •Without following its own stated procedure or policy
    •For reasons not contained in the employment contract, if one exists

    MyFoxOrlando obtained a letter sent to Hamilton from the school which asked not to return because of "fornication," sex outside of marriage. It also claims that Hamilton knew about the school's moral stance through the employment application process.

    I don’t think she is going to win this as the school did nothing wrong.

    I'm only on page 4 of 20+ pages so if this was already addressed...sorry.

    Couldn't a legal case be made based on sex (gender). A woman might "show" that she's had sex outside of marriage because of a pregnancy, where a man would not have outward signs.

    That sounds like discrimination to me.



    ...back to reading through this thread


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  3. #223
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The part that indicates that she was fired for premarital sex. I link being pregnant to having sex. They are somewhat related.
    NOOoooooo!!!!

    Really??!??!??

    That bit of info blindsided me…
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I don't know, I am taking a step back and thinking that maybe my argument isn't as valid as I originally thought, to be honest. Regardless, even if I am wrong, I think that premarital sex will simply be included into what a person cannot be discriminated against for.
    Perhaps, but that’s future.

    Presently, as I understand the situation, they did nothing illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Regarding the lawyer, do you know how many idiotically stupid lawyers there are out there? Or perhaps I am just wrong... *shrugs*
    A point.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  4. #224
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No it hasn't which is exactly why this is still up for debate.



    I don't have so much insecurity about my position on this that I need to chest thump with wagers and gambles. However, if either of us recall this story after the two years or more it takes to go through it's circuit of courts and appeals, sure, a platinum membership on me if the school doesn't settle for any money.
    Since settlements are often confidential, the $$ may not be revealed. I think you should stick with your first thought of not wagering.

    From what I know of the federal discrimination laws and protected characteristics, this woman would win a legal case although it's it's more likely to end with a settlement.



    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  5. #225
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Bodhisattva, what if the sex didn't result in pregnancy, would it be legal to fire her then?
    "Doubleplusungood"

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  6. #226
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Based on what??? Nothing to agree or disagree with, it is the law. You really haven't shown anything that debunks what I have or posted proof of anything? Then you say the law itself "No it hasn't which is exactly why this is still up for debate." which is absolutely not true. No one has posted anything even remotely relevant to the counter point.



    Religious morals have been upheld in almost every case for private entity's. Including employees who smoke, do drugs and in the case of the Boy Scouts are homosexual. The case law on this says no.

    Hostile work environment? She was fired one week after disclosing she had premarital sex. That is a stretch.

    BD, you're missing the point. There is no moral clause that trumps federal law. It's against the law to discriminate based on sex or pregnancy.

    This woman was clearly discriminated against on both points. A man would not have "shown" his pregnancy, nor been asked about it......which leads to the moral clause you're talking about.
    Federal law is clear about gender discrimination.

    You can't treat a pregnant woman differently then a woman who is not pregnant. That's federal law. If a moral clause is in contradiction of federal law, the moral clause loses.
    Actually, that moral clause is going to add up to dollars when settlement time rolls around.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  7. #227
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I am no lawyer, but I think she will lose. Her lawyer will charge her a bunch of money and hopefully she can afford it.
    Lawyers will take a case knowing it is unwinnable, seen it done within my own family. Judge threw it out immediately.
    I think she'll win, Bill.

    When I had a work related problem, my attorney agreed her fee would be 1/3 of my settlement so I had no lawyer "fees". I'm sure she can find an attorney willing to do the same.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  8. #228
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    NOOoooooo!!!!

    Really??!??!??

    That bit of info blindsided me…
    Perhaps, but that’s future.

    Presently, as I understand the situation, they did nothing illegal.

    A point.
    Really! Let me explain the birds and the bees...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #229
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Bodhisattva, what if the sex didn't result in pregnancy, would it be legal to fire her then?
    Good question. At this point I think no. It is discrimination. I think that the employment contract that stipulates that would be illegal, and thereby invalid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #230
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    I wonder how they would have treated Mary and Joseph...

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