View Poll Results: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

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  • Yes, they should be allowed to demand a traditional Christian moral code from all teachers

    40 41.24%
  • They should be allowed if they prove they apply the same standards to all teachers

    4 4.12%
  • They should be allowed, but that doesn't make it right

    22 22.68%
  • They are discriminating against women, since fornication is more obvious with them

    3 3.09%
  • If the school board members can prove they never fornicated, then they stand on solid ground

    3 3.09%
  • Christian schools should not be allowed to discriminate on moral grounds

    11 11.34%
  • Christians are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the face of the Earth!

    8 8.25%
  • Other response

    6 6.19%
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Thread: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

  1. #171
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    [QUOTE=Blackdog;1058800531]
    It is a private institution, they can hire and fire who they will. The case law on this as I said is pretty much not in her favor. Even worse in Florida.



    I agree with this but that is an assumption beyond what the article has stated as fact.
    Actually, it's not. All that has to happen is for a statement in any employee documentation, such as the handbook or disciplinary forms, to contradict the "at will" umbrella law and she has a solid case. This only has to consist of statements or indications that performance will guarantee continued employment. Further, religious morality can NEVER be the reason that a person is fired from a job because it falls directly under the protection of religion as stated in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    This was a wrongful termination let alone and technicality that dispels the "at will" agreement.
    I am going on facts here, not assumptions.

    I know exactly what it means, you seem to be confused on the subject. I am based on facts, absolutely correct and have shown evidence to back this up. So far you have made assumptions based on things that may not even be a factor.
    I don't really think you do. You keep referencing the "at will" employment of Florida with zero admission of the fact that the "at will" agreement isn't air tight. And no one here is making any assumption (save for your assumption that "at will" trumps any other legal code); everything I have stated is pulled directly from the article.

  2. #172
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Actually, it's not. All that has to happen is for a statement in any employee documentation, such as the handbook or disciplinary forms, to contradict the "at will" umbrella law and she has a solid case.
    Her attorney has stated it is about discrimination as in she was fired for being pregnant. The school has stated she was not and that it was for premarital sex which is a violation of the schools moral code.

    These are the facts. Other lawyers have already said and I have posted it the “at will” clause is very hard to overcome.

    So you are basing your argument on something that neither side says is in evidence at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    This only has to consist of statements or indications that performance will guarantee continued employment. Further, religious morality can NEVER be the reason that a person is fired from a job because it falls directly under the protection of religion as stated in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
    This is not true. In the case of the kid kicked out of school for going to prom for violating the schools religious moral code. The boy Scouts of America banning gays as scout leaders. My wife’s company has fired people for religious moral code violations and no law suits.

    This is a private religious institution that has every right to dismiss someone on moral religious grounds.

    If this was the case her lawyer would probably be perusing it, he is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    [color=red]This was a wrongful termination let alone and technicality that dispels the "at will" agreement.[/red]
    I am going on facts here, not assumptions.
    So the item marked in red is not an assumption? The things I refuted up above are not assumptions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't really think you do. You keep referencing the "at will" employment of Florida with zero admission of the fact that the "at will" agreement isn't air tight.
    Please point out where I said it was? I didn’t.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And no one here is making any assumption (save for your assumption that "at will" trumps any other legal code); everything I have stated is pulled directly from the article.
    No it’s not. Please quote the article where the lawyer or anyone else said…

    #1 Civil rights were violated
    #2 Anyone mentioned “disciplinary form” contradicting the “at will” clause.
    #3 Religious moralities cannot be enforced at religious institutions.

    All of these are not in play and have nothing to do with the articles and are indeed unfounded assumptions.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-11-10 at 03:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #173
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Thieves, murderers and all other criminals must be forgiven so we donít cast the first stone!

    See how much sense that makes? This was not the moral or purpose of the story.


    Blackdog, do you equate sin to crime? Is that the Christian way? I suppose if you belong to the same group as Rev. Phelps, but otherwise, I disagree
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Thieves, murderers and all other criminals must be forgiven so we donít cast the first stone!

    See how much sense that makes? This was not the moral or purpose of the story.


    Blackdog, do you equate sin to crime? Is that the Christian way? I suppose if you belong to the same group as Rev. Phelps, but otherwise, I disagree
    I think you must belong to the Phelps group. As this really has nothing to do with my post or what I said, but if you have no argument I guess it makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No it’s not. Please quote the article where the lawyer or anyone else said…

    #1 Civil rights were violated
    #2 Anyone mentioned “disciplinary form” contradicting the “at will” clause.
    #3 Religious moralities cannot be enforced at religious institutions.

    All of these are not in play and have nothing to do with the articles and are indeed unfounded assumptions.
    Yes, it most certainly is. And you don't know what's actually in play until you read the briefs and depositions filed in the actual suit, which hasn't happened yet. Going from the FACTS listed in the article, the school

    A) Only loosely mentioned this "moral code" and it doesn't appear to be in any kind of documentation.
    B) Attempted to enforce a religious morality into the private life of this teacher
    C) Made a conveniently timely decision to terminate her after her marriage and just before her attempt to take medical leave

    All of these things add up to hostility, violation of religious freedoms and lacking clean hands in the firing process.

    The school will pay and when they do, you will be a platinum contributor to DP.

  6. #176
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Yes, it most certainly is. And you don't know what's actually in play until you read the briefs and depositions filed in the actual suit, which hasn't happened yet. Going from the FACTS listed in the article, the school

    A) Only loosely mentioned this "moral code" and it doesn't appear to be in any kind of documentation.
    B) Attempted to enforce a religious morality into the private life of this teacher
    C) Made a conveniently timely decision to terminate her after her marriage and just before her attempt to take medical leave

    All of these things add up to hostility, violation of religious freedoms and lacking clean hands in the firing process.

    The school will pay and when they do, you will be a platinum contributor to DP.
    This reply answers not one of my questions or facts put to you.

    If you are going to ignore my post, then donít bother to respond, it is a waist of time for both of us.

    I guess we are done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #177
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Perhaps the administration should have asked, What would Jesus Do? If they feel that Jesus would have fired her, then they do not understand HIS TEACHINGS.
    If she had made a big deal out of it in front of the students, I would have fired her myself, but this is not the case.
    The issue here is not so much do they have a legal leg to stand on, but a moral leg. So she sinned, is casting her out the proper response?

    Those hypocrites probably won't even let the child attend their school when it comes of age. Generations of Christians have abused the word bastard, placing blame on the child. Ann Landers said it best, there is no such thing as an illegitimate child, onlly illegitimate parents...
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This reply answers not one of my questions or facts put to you.

    If you are going to ignore my post, then don’t bother to respond, it is a waist of time for both of us.

    I guess we are done.
    I did respond. You just don't like the answer. That's your problem, not mine.

  9. #179
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Perhaps the administration should have asked, What would Jesus Do? If they feel that Jesus would have fired her, then they do not understand HIS TEACHINGS.
    Weren't you just telling me judge not lest you be judged? Or was it he who is without sin?

    Your hypocrisy is quite noticeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If she had made a big deal out of it in front of the students, I would have fired her myself, but this is not the case.
    The issue here is not so much do they have a legal leg to stand on, but a moral leg. So she sinned, is casting her out the proper response?
    I don't know, I tend to agree with you on this as I don't think they should have. The school on the other hand has a standard to uphold they say she was aware of. So this whole moral argument is just speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Those hypocrites probably won't even let the child attend their school when it comes of age.
    How forgiving of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Generations of Christians have abused the word bastard, placing blame on the child. Ann Landers said it best, there is no such thing as an illegitimate child, onlly illegitimate parents...
    And this is somehow relevant?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #180
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I did respond. You just don't like the answer. That's your problem, not mine.
    You are correct, your non-answer is a problem.

    So as I said you have a good one Jall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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