View Poll Results: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

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  • Yes, they should be allowed to demand a traditional Christian moral code from all teachers

    40 41.24%
  • They should be allowed if they prove they apply the same standards to all teachers

    4 4.12%
  • They should be allowed, but that doesn't make it right

    22 22.68%
  • They are discriminating against women, since fornication is more obvious with them

    3 3.09%
  • If the school board members can prove they never fornicated, then they stand on solid ground

    3 3.09%
  • Christian schools should not be allowed to discriminate on moral grounds

    11 11.34%
  • Christians are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the face of the Earth!

    8 8.25%
  • Other response

    6 6.19%
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Thread: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

  1. #161
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Jesus did nothing of the sort, he hung on the cross....the harshest form of punishment at the time.
    Exactly, so we can avoid punishment for "original" sin of Adam and Eve.....an invention of churches.
    When the local leaders wanted to punish someone for something, and Christ was there, he forgave on the spot, and that includes foregoing punishment...
    These so called Christians who have such harsh punishments seem to forget all the sins THEY have committed.
    Again, let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
    These rabid religionists almost always use the words of the OT, or mis use the words of Paul, to condemn without thinking. My experience with many of them leads me to believe that they are just petty little pricks who want some power over others.
    Christianity is about service to others, not power over them....
    Says so in Matt. chap 25....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  2. #162
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Privately owned, it's their right. /Thread

  3. #163
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Exactly, so we can avoid punishment for "original" sin of Adam and Eve.....an invention of churches.
    To avoid the "spiritual punishment" the whole Hell fire thing, not physical life. In this life you will get what you give.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    When the local leaders wanted to punish someone for something, and Christ was there, he forgave on the spot, and that includes foregoing punishment...
    John 8:7 is an ‘entrapment’ story, and was to show Jesus’ wisdom in besting his detractors, not an ethical pronouncement against punishment. This analysis is consistent with virtually all theological scholarship.

    So no.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    These so called Christians who have such harsh punishments seem to forget all the sins THEY have committed.
    She breached a contract. Firing her was so harsh, NOT. The sins they have committed are irrelevant unless they tell someone to get themselves fired.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Again, let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
    I agree! Thieves, murderers and all other criminals must be forgiven so we don’t cast the first stone!

    See how much sense that makes? This was not the moral or purpose of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    These rabid religionists almost always use the words of the OT, or mis use the words of Paul, to condemn without thinking. My experience with many of them leads me to believe that they are just petty little pricks who want some power over others.
    This has nothing to do with the OT, this is about NT morals being inforced on the staff of a “Christian” school. Go figure.

    You are way off course here.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Christianity is about service to others, not power over them....
    Says so in Matt. chap 25....
    It is also about setting a good example to those around you.

    "By this all men will know you are My disciples" (John 13:35)
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-11-10 at 12:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #164
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Which has been shown numerous times does not apply here. The state laws are clear and show no violation.
    No it hasn't which is exactly why this is still up for debate.

    As I said before, I would be willing to make a little wager on that. You up for it?
    I don't have so much insecurity about my position on this that I need to chest thump with wagers and gambles. However, if either of us recall this story after the two years or more it takes to go through it's circuit of courts and appeals, sure, a platinum membership on me if the school doesn't settle for any money.

  5. #165
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's an understood and implied agreement between the employer and the employee. It is also governed by federal labor laws.
    Please point out the Federal law that says if an employee breaks the moral clause agreed to before hiring, they cannot be fired in an “at will state.”

    She was not fired for being pregnant, so other than a breach of contract on her part. Please point out how the non-existent Federal law applies?

    Some evidence of your claim would be helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No it hasn't which is exactly why this is still up for debate.
    State of Florida Law:

    Employment

    At Will

    In Florida, employees are presumed to be "at will." At-will employees may be terminated for any reason, so long as it's not illegal. Generally, employees who work under an employment contract can only be terminated for reasons specified in the contract. In Florida, it is very difficult to overcome the at-will presumption.

    Discrimination and Wrongful Termination

    Employers are not allowed to terminate or discriminate against employees for the following reasons:

    •Age
    •Race
    •Sex
    •Religion
    •National origin
    •Disability
    •Pregnancy <------ This was not the reason and had nothing at all to do with it.

    It's illegal for an employer to consider these characteristics with regard to:

    •Promotions
    •Job assignments
    •Termination
    •Wages

    And it's illegal for an employer to terminate an employee:

    •For refusing to break a law
    •In retaliation for filing a discrimination or safety claim
    •For taking leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act
    •Without following its own stated procedure or policy
    •For reasons not contained in the employment contract, if one exists
    - Employment Law in Florida - Lawyers.com

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't have so much insecurity about my position on this that I need to chest thump with wagers and gambles.
    This has nothing to do with my correct position.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    However, if either of us recall this story after the two years or more it takes to go through it's circuit of courts and appeals, sure, a platinum membership on me if the school doesn't settle for any money.
    Works for me.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-11-10 at 01:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #166
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Please point out the Federal law that says if an employee breaks the moral clause agreed to before hiring, they cannot be fired in an “at will state.”
    I already read every bit of that and I still don't agree with you on it. Repeating it over and over again isn't going to have any effect. The courts will settle it and prove you and that school to be flat out wrong. Period.

    What's going to happen is the lawyers for this woman are going to dig into all the documentation, employee handbook, etc and then they are going to challenge the enforcement of religious morality on an employee, make a discrimination claim, and a hostile work environment claim. The school may not pay the damages she seeks, but they will pay. And they will pay big.
    Last edited by jallman; 06-11-10 at 02:03 PM.

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I already read every bit of that and I still don't agree with you on it. Repeating it over and over again isn't going to have any effect. The courts will settle it and prove you and that school to be flat out wrong. Period.
    Based on what??? Nothing to agree or disagree with, it is the law. You really haven't shown anything that debunks what I have or posted proof of anything? Then you say the law itself "No it hasn't which is exactly why this is still up for debate." which is absolutely not true. No one has posted anything even remotely relevant to the counter point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    What's going to happen is the lawyers for this woman are going to dig into all the documentation, employee handbook, etc and then they are going to challenge the enforcement of religious morality on an employee, make a discrimination claim, and a hostile work environment claim. The school may not pay the damages she seeks, but they will pay. And they will pay big.
    Religious morals have been upheld in almost every case for private entity's. Including employees who smoke, do drugs and in the case of the Boy Scouts are homosexual. The case law on this says no.

    Hostile work environment? She was fired one week after disclosing she had premarital sex. That is a stretch.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-11-10 at 02:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #168
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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Based on what??? Nothing to agree or disagree with, it is the law.
    The law is not that clear cut. If it were, there would be no need for litigation. Frankly, you are making every attempt to grossly over-simplify a situation that is actually very complex. "At will" does not negate the rights of the employee to peaceful enjoyment of their lives without unlawful separation of income and livelihood. Also, there has to be shown what's called a "clean hands" policy on the part of the employer when they do fire someone even under an "at will" agreement. If there is any evidence that they fired her to avoid paying family medical leave, because of some hostility, or because of some form of discrimination, she will get damages...yes, even in Florida and their "at will" employment laws.

    You really haven't shown anything that debunks what I have or posted proof of anything? Then you say the law itself "No it hasn't which is exactly why this is still up for debate." which is absolutely not true. No one has posted anything even remotely relevant to the counter point.
    And you haven't shown anything to prove that you are correct except the law itself and a way off base-analysis of what you seem to think it means.

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    The law is not that clear cut. If it were, there would be no need for litigation. Frankly, you are making every attempt to grossly over-simplify a situation that is actually very complex. "At will" does not negate the rights of the employee to peaceful enjoyment of their lives without unlawful separation of income and livelihood.
    It is a private institution, they can hire and fire who they will. The case law on this as I said is pretty much not in her favor. Even worse in Florida.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Also, there has to be shown what's called a "clean hands" policy on the part of the employer when they do fire someone even under an "at will" agreement. If there is any evidence that they fired her to avoid paying family medical leave, because of some hostility, or because of some form of discrimination, she will get damages...yes, even in Florida and their "at will" employment laws.
    I agree with this but that is an assumption beyond what the article has stated as fact.

    I am going on facts here, not assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And you haven't shown anything to prove that you are correct except the law itself and a way off base-analysis of what you seem to think it means.
    I know exactly what it means, you seem to be confused on the subject. I am basing my argument on the facts as presented and they are absolutely correct. I have also shown evidence to back this up. So far you have made assumptions based on things that may not even be a factor.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-11-10 at 02:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should a Christian school be allowed to fire a teacher for fornication?

    I did a little more research and her lawyer is saying that the "moral code" they said she would be held to was only loosely defined prior to hiring. If this is the case, the school better have fired every teacher who was having premarital sex, or other "moral" breakdowns according to biblical values. Otherwise they were indeed discriminating against her for being pregnant.

    None of lawyers comments are facts yet, but this can and will change. As for the school other than the school commenting on the firing having nothing to do with the pregnancy itself, neither side has said that much.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-11-10 at 02:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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