View Poll Results: What does redneck refer to

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  • It refers to a culture

    76 90.48%
  • It refers to a race

    8 9.52%
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Thread: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

  1. #181
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
    Didn't say it was ok. It's inaccurate on one point because few "whites" actually have ancestors that were directly involved in transgressions. Irish children were literally enslaved and shipped to the West Indies by British traders, so they weren't in a possession to oppress people.

    I just said that the underlying intuitions that are the motivating cause aren't those of supremacist dominance, as opposed to white racism, and anti-white racism doesn't have the potential to manifest itself in such a way, as opposed to white racism. White populism actually serves as somewhat of a proxy for white supremacism in that white populism is the ultimate foundation for bitterness about complaints of prejudice made by racial minorities, as the white populist perceives this as an unfair attempt to get a leg up without having earned it.

    Here's an example from Stormfront:
    I'm neither a fan of populism nor racial supremacy.
    I prefer the path of acceptance as long as people act respectful to one another.

    I think these terms mostly inhibit racial progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
    I've experienced that too, as well as the fact that I've encountered very few Indians who call themselves "Native American" as a self-description. But the ornery and belligerent refusal to use those words because of their "political correctness" is usually correlated with angry white male syndrome.
    I'm just using the generally accepted versions of self description that most people use here.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Thanks. He helped write it. It wasn't all his though. From your source:

    One resolution not included in Lincoln's proposals offered that "no amendment shall be made to the Constitution, which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish, or interfere within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State."

    I think this part is accurate:

    The discovery of Lincoln's letter to the governor of Florida does not alter the historical perspective that Lincoln was willing to compromise to restore the Union before hostilities began. It also underscores Lincoln's evolution toward emancipation. This snapshot of March 1861 shows Lincoln's last attempt to restore the Union while maintaining his party's platform. While personally opposed to slavery, Lincoln believed the Constitution supported it.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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  3. #183
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Mechanization makes manual labor unnecessary.

    With housing and feeding, you also have to worry about the general health of your "employees" because slaves were freaking expensive, you don't want an expensive investment to die.

    It's more efficient to let people manage their self then to manage it for them by a centralized controller.
    How were they "freaking expensive"? They provided the bare minimum in many cases. If they wanted them to be healthy as employees, the cost would be the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  4. #184
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm neither a fan of populism nor racial supremacy.
    I prefer the path of acceptance as long as people act respectful to one another.

    I think these terms mostly inhibit racial progress.
    White supremacists don't sit down one day and logically deduce that their philosophy is correct. They're first motivated by angry white [usually male] syndrome that stems from their belief that racial minorities have an entitlement mentality, and unfairly receive rewards without working from social welfare programs, as well as other kinds of unearned special treatment. This manifests itself in the form of white populism, motivated by the same bitter resentment. African-Americans laze about and abuse substances in inner cities, unmotivated to work because they receive welfare checks that they spend on vice. Illegal/undocumented immigrants criminally break into the country to brazenly steal those same welfare checks. U.S. Indians sit on reservations and consume alcohol, sustained by welfare checks and gambling revenue.

    Anger at this motivates advocacy of white populist policies such as restrictions on welfare and affirmative action, which are promoted by many rightists. White supremacists have simply gone a step further than their white populist comrades in determining that this propensity for immorality on the part of racial minorities is linked to genetics or some other inherent characteristic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm just using the generally accepted versions of self description that most people use here.
    That's fine. People who go out of their way to use words that are "edgy" and "politically incorrect" are usually motivated by resentment at their perception that racial minorities are unfairly protected by speech codes, which ties in with their association with laziness via welfare usage and unemployment, and moral weakness via substance abuse.

  5. #185
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    An average slave cost $100 in 1850's gold currency. Accounting for inflation, the slave is worth roughly $6,125 when purchased then you have to add in housing, medical care, food, and clothing. All of which adds up and the slave owner has to pay for them since they were legally obligated to do so until the slave died. It was cradle to the grave welfare of the slave. All of it was unsustainable and slavery would have died naturally like it did in every Western country with the last one in the early 1900's.
    I still don't see where the savings is if the slave owner paid for the necessities or if they paid the slaves to take care of that themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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  6. #186
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    How were they "freaking expensive"? They provided the bare minimum in many cases. If they wanted them to be healthy as employees, the cost would be the same.
    Not necessarily, you'd be surprised how centralized management is more expensive than self management.
    Slaves had to be protected from escaping, had to be made to work and other things that a wage earner would not normally be made to do, wage earners want to work(more or less).
    Slave owners had to pay people to protect their investment, which is a loss in many cases.
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  7. #187
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I don't understand how in economic terms, slavery would have been unsustainable. I would think it would be cheaper to cheaply house and feed employees than to pay them a wage.
    This is a bizarre post to write. . .

    Not even looking at the "slave costs" for housing and feeding, etc - there's also the fact that slavery is dealing with people who have free-will.

    When confined and forced against their will they're more likely to run off, turn on their 'owners' and so on.

    Take the issues surrounding the Berlin Wall, for example - they had to confine everyone and took away their rights and severed them from their family, basically turning them into slaves. Yet the free will of some challenged every technology they threw at the strength of the wall - made it more and more costly and challenging to keep people captive and confined.
    It, slowly, began to fall apart.

    Any form of slavery will eventually become cost-constraining as you'll have to continue to improve your surrounding and battlements, fences and means of confinement - as well as covering the cost of the dwindling numbers (escape, death, killed while being re-captured) and so on.

    It's a self-destructing cycle that is unsustainable in the long run.
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  8. #188
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    This is a bizarre post to write. . .

    Not even looking at the "slave costs" for housing and feeding, etc - there's also the fact that slavery is dealing with people who have free-will.

    When confined and forced against their will they're more likely to run off, turn on their 'owners' and so on.

    They also won't work without an overseer, and an intricate system of incentives and disincentives in place, all of which costs money.
    They're prisoners, after all.
    It's not like they joyfully picked cotton at top speed all day, every day- year in and year out, for their entire lives- out of love for and a sense of duty toward their masters.
    Inducing them to actually work, rather than drag their feet and sabotage everything, could not have been a cheap proposition.
    Last edited by 1069; 06-06-10 at 07:12 PM.

  9. #189
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    It doesn't matter when we're discussing rhetoric. This is about communication. I know my history and you're arrogant to assume so.

    I can't really compress an entire collegiate career in studying communications (and film, but that's beside the point), but what I'm saying is that you fail to alter the symbol of the flag into what you claim it is. If you've been unable to remove the offense from the symbol - especially in its use by racists in the 1950s and 1960s - then you're failing in your communication.

    To ignore the perception of the audience - 50% of the process of communication - mean that you fail in your effort to communicate. To then blame the audience is yet a further failure of communication.

    Here's how the process has worked:

    I choose to show the Confederate flag.

    You say, I find that flag offensive.

    I say, I don't mean it offensively. I mean it as a show of regional pride.

    You say, why do only Southern whites show the flag, then?

    I say, I still don't mean it offensively.

    You say, well, it's offensive.

    I continue to fly the flag.

    I'm - AT BEST - saying f*** you with it. If I continue to do something that you find offensive, I'm disrespecting you.

    If the Confederate flag is merely about regional pride, why isn't it flown by Southern blacks?

    If "redneck" is a racist term because it's only directed at whites, then the Confederate flag is racist because it's only flown by whites.

    Once more, this is a game of you getting to decide everything and everyone else having to accept your interpretation or they can f*** off.

    This isn't about the complex history of the Civil War and things like the Kansas/Nebraska compromise (see, I know my history as well). This is about communication. There is a failure of Southern whites to communicate the need to maintain a symbol that is offensive to many. When told they find it offensive, the response is basically a big f*** you.

    You just called me "shallow and uninformed" for expressing my opinion. So, who's more shallow? The one who says "f*** you" when someone says, I'm offended - or the person who initiates the offense?

    Sir, I was referring to "Your Star" in my statements. I did not address you directly.

    In answer to at least one of your questions, I have in fact known Southern blacks who flew the Confederate flag, because they understood the heritage meaning of it. One fellow I knew was a black farmer, who flew the Stars and Bars at his house and also had a confederate flag on his truck.

    I suggest that that gentleman understood what I've been talking about far better than you. Communication is dependent not only on the speaker, but on the listener.

    Back during the whole "flag flap" in SC, most of the black South Carolinians I knew were relatively indifferent about it. Those who did have a strong opinion were chiefly annoyed at an out-of-state organization sticking its nose into South Carolina's business, and trying to harm our tourist trade.... especially since more blacks work in tourist-service than whites...

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  10. #190
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not necessarily, you'd be surprised how centralized management is more expensive than self management.
    Slaves had to be protected from escaping, had to be made to work and other things that a wage earner would not normally be made to do, wage earners want to work(more or less).
    Slave owners had to pay people to protect their investment, which is a loss in many cases.
    Beatings and worse kept them in line. That wasn't expensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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