View Poll Results: What does redneck refer to

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  • It refers to a culture

    76 90.48%
  • It refers to a race

    8 9.52%
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Thread: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

  1. #171
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I can't change the reception if someone doesn't want to understand.
    A person who doesn't want to understand, is almost impossible to get through to.

    I understand that but it comes to a point that enough is enough.
    Constantly denigrating a group of people based on things that are out of context and misunderstood has it's limits.
    Especially when the people making the insults are more intolerant than those they are going after are perceived to be.



    Nathan Bedford Forrest did not found the Klan, although he did participate in some of it's earlier campaignes of terror, he reversed his position on Black people and adopted an incredibly liberal ideology of Black inclusion and equality.

    He also defended the city of Rome from complete destruction of the Union army.
    Looking at from that standpoint.

    There is a definite reason why many people describe those as heroes and not villains.

    I can't help that some people used it as a symbol of hate.
    I have had no control over it, it's something I can't change.

    All I can do is inform.
    But getting back to the actual point: if "redneck" is racist because it's only used against whites; then the Confederate flag is also racist because it's only used by whites.

    Until it's a symbol of pride for the whole region and not just Southern whites, I fail to see how it can communicate anything else due to its associations with a racist past.

    Thus, how can you claim that you "give respect" when it is given to you, if someone respectfully says what you're doing is offensive to me and you continue to do it?

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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yea it's pretty bad, especially the people who get the twitchies.
    Although I've made fun of them, I probably shouldn't because their addiction has overridden their normal social controls.
    I've done it recreationally a number of times; I seem blessed with the ability to dabble in drugs without getting hooked (actually, sometimes it felt more like a curse, because I was the one who always had to watch, relatively unscathed, as my partners-in-crime- including my husband- fell beneath the wheels of drug addiction).
    Meth always seemed yucky to me: dirty, cut with god-knows-what. Makes you stink like hell.
    The only good part about it was that it lasted a comparatively long time (compared to coke, that is), but even that becomes a negative when you've been awake for 72 hours picking imaginary lint out of your carpet, and you've started hallucinating, and you begin to feel like you've so thoroughly forgotten how to sleep that you will die- literally die- before you're ever able to go to sleep again.
    Last edited by 1069; 06-06-10 at 04:31 PM.

  3. #173
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    Whatever the motivation, its still ignorant, wrong headed, and flat out stupid.
    Except white racism is bred of attempts to maintain institutional dominance, and anti-white racism, though also an unfair generality, is a raw reaction to that. Its language is characterized by partially accurate complaints about European oppression, with inappropriate application to all people of European descent. White racist complaints about "oppression" usually involve the mass media's refusal to depict their "white rights" movement as a civil rights struggle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's meant to insult based on historical prejudice, most used by pretentious elitists.
    The word "redneck"? Or "anti-white racism"? Anti-white racism is generally based on reactions to dominance, real or merely perceived. It's not bred of a desire to dominate others, as white racism is. Black nationalism, unlike white nationalism, is not inherently associated with black supremacist views, which are themselves bred of reaction to white supremacism. People who asininely equate the NAACP with the KKK as "equal racist organizations" are joined in agreement only by white nationalists, who claim that they are fighting for "white rights."

    The people that usually mention "anti-white racism" as a problem that they imply is equivalent to white racism are those with white populist mindsets themselves, that usually have the idea that African-Americans "blacks," (we can't be "politically correct"), just need to "work harder" to succeed and have general tendencies to lazily use welfare instead of working hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    In another thread, a month or two ago, I explained in detail why many Southerners view the Stars and Bars as a symbol of regional and cultural pride, and not as a symbol of racism (let alone slavery). I won't go into all that again, look it up if you like.

    Yes, I'm aware that many people choose to view it as a symbol of racism. That would be why I don't usually fly it myself, but I support the right of any Southerner who is flying it as a symbol of heritage, not hate, to do so.
    The "Stars and Bars" refers to the first national flag of the CSA:



    The "Confederate flag" used today is entirely different, and is based on the battle flag, though its shape is rectangular.



    It's not true that the Civil War was "not about slavery," as some historical revisionists have claimed. It was not about slavery in its context as a moral issue, since the general public, Lincoln included, were typically adherents to doctrines of black racial inferiority. It was about slavery as an economic issue, with it being an integral staple of agrarian labor productivity in Southern states. It was about Southern resistance of Northern dominance, but resistance of perceived federal interests in abolition of an authoritarian institution, just as it was when the South resisted desegregation a century later. After the rather shabby Emancipation Proclamation, a significant number of plantation slaves deserted and defected to the Union army, though.

  4. #174
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    But getting back to the actual point: if "redneck" is racist because it's only used against whites; then the Confederate flag is also racist because it's only used by whites.
    Not necessarily true.
    Redneck is generally used as a pejorative to describe southern/rural white people.
    It's meant as an insult.

    On the other hand, people who wave a Confederate flag, could be Black, Hispanic etc.
    It's based on what the flag represents to them.
    Generally speaking, the flag itself represents Southern culture of decentralized political governance.

    It also represents the native side of the war where people were actually saved by Confederate forces from many of the Union campaigns of burning cities, sacking food stores, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Until it's a symbol of pride for the whole region and not just Southern whites, I fail to see how it can communicate anything else due to its associations with a racist past.
    It could be but by and large, Black southerners have adopted a dissimilar cultural system which is not representative of decentralized political governance.
    That is a generality of course, but largely true.


    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Thus, how can you claim that you "give respect" when it is given to you, if someone respectfully says what you're doing is offensive to me and you continue to do it?
    I don't get offended easily but I like to call out double standards, especially when it comes to bigotry and prejudice.
    If the Black Panthers clarified themselves as a Black cultural support group, I have no beef with any of their symbols and regalia as long that is their true intent.

    If they start going off the deep end, making racial slurs and bigoted remarks, their true intent is reveled.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #175
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
    The word "redneck"? Or "anti-white racism"? Anti-white racism is generally based on reactions to dominance, real or merely perceived. It's not bred of a desire to dominate others, as white racism is. Black nationalism, unlike white nationalism, is not inherently associated with black supremacist views, which are themselves bred of reaction to white supremacism. People who asininely equate the NAACP with the KKK as "equal racist organizations" are joined in agreement only by white nationalists, who claim that they are fighting for "white rights."

    The people that usually mention "anti-white racism" as a problem that they imply is equivalent to white racism are those with white populist mindsets themselves, that usually have the idea that African-Americans "blacks," (we can't be "politically correct"), just need to "work harder" to succeed and have general tendencies to lazily use welfare instead of working hard.
    I merely want fairness.
    If the intent of now is to move forward, we shouldn't be clinging to ideas that it is "ok" to insult one group because of the transgressions for their fore bearers.

    Bleh, political correctness is for wienies.
    The majority of Black people, where I live, describe themselves as Black and me as White.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Link to Lincoln writing the Corwin Amendment please? He supported it as a compromise to stave off the Civil War.
    Here it is.

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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    I don't understand how in economic terms, slavery would have been unsustainable. I would think it would be cheaper to cheaply house and feed employees than to pay them a wage.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  8. #178
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I don't understand how in economic terms, slavery would have been unsustainable. I would think it would be cheaper to cheaply house and feed employees than to pay them a wage.
    Mechanization makes manual labor unnecessary.

    With housing and feeding, you also have to worry about the general health of your "employees" because slaves were freaking expensive, you don't want an expensive investment to die.

    It's more efficient to let people manage their self then to manage it for them by a centralized controller.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #179
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I don't understand how in economic terms, slavery would have been unsustainable. I would think it would be cheaper to cheaply house and feed employees than to pay them a wage.
    An average slave cost $100 in 1850's gold currency. Accounting for inflation, the slave is worth roughly $6,125 when purchased then you have to add in housing, medical care, food, and clothing. All of which adds up and the slave owner has to pay for them since they were legally obligated to do so until the slave died. It was cradle to the grave welfare of the slave. All of it was unsustainable and slavery would have died naturally like it did in every Western country with the last one in the early 1900's.

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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I merely want fairness. If the intent of now is to move forward, we shouldn't be clinging to ideas that it is "ok" to insult one group because of the transgressions for their fore bearers.
    Didn't say it was ok. It's inaccurate on one point because few "whites" actually have ancestors that were directly involved in transgressions. Irish children were literally enslaved and shipped to the West Indies by British traders, so they weren't in a possession to oppress people.

    I just said that the underlying intuitions that are the motivating cause aren't those of supremacist dominance, as opposed to white racism, and anti-white racism doesn't have the potential to manifest itself in such a way, as opposed to white racism. White populism actually serves as somewhat of a proxy for white supremacism in that white populism is the ultimate foundation for bitterness about complaints of prejudice made by racial minorities, as the white populist perceives this as an unfair attempt to get a leg up without having earned it.

    Here's an example from Stormfront:

    The tea party crowd are comprised of ordinary White Americans, just as White Nationalists are. Culturally and traditionally, they're basically the same as White Nationalists - both rooted in the earlier paleo-conservative value system. The only difference might be that the neo-conservatives seem to think they can manipulate the tea partiers much more easily than they can manipulate White Nationalists. Of course, from the liberal side, the only thing they can throw out is the "race card," so therefore they will keep using the label of "racist" against the tea partiers. "Racist" is really the only rhetorical weapon the liberals have in their arsenal, and since they disingenuously overuse that label as much as they do, even that is starting to lose its power. Instead of mindlessly throwing around labels like "racist," liberals might actually have to make real, genuine arguments in the future - something they've proven incapable of doing. They've come to rely so much on calling people "racist" to get their way, they use it mostly as a crutch these days.
    You can see the same foundations of white populism in Caine's posts, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Bleh, political correctness is for wienies. The majority of Black people, where I live, describe themselves as Black and me as White.
    I've experienced that too, as well as the fact that I've encountered very few Indians who call themselves "Native American" as a self-description. But the ornery and belligerent refusal to use those words because of their "political correctness" is usually correlated with angry white male syndrome.

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